james terrio
Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2010
- Messages
- 22,618
Please allow me to chime in, from the perspective of someone who has to balance actual costs against perceived value every single day. With all due respect and gratitude to the loyal fans, customers and collectors who make my job and this entire industry possible, most people have absolutely no clue what it really takes to put a great knife in your hands, whether it's handmade or produced in a factory. It is not the glamorous, lucrative rock-star kinda lifestyle people seem to think it is. My honest advice to any young wannabe handmade knifemaker would be, go back to school and become a machinist or a welder. You'll be much better off.
True. Economy of scale is a huge factor. I can only grind one blade, assemble one handle, or build one sheath at a time. I buy my steel by the bar or by the pound, not by the ton.
To a certain extent, I'm just picking numbers out of the air here, so bear with me. But I think you'll get the idea...
With nearly any knife produced one-by-one or in small batches, time and tooling and consumables cost much, much more than the actual steels most individual makers and boutique shops use (from 10xx to Elmax and beyond). The only exception that really jumps to mind is high-end damascus, which can easily cost $50-100 per linear inch.
Point being, the "hidden" costs for "super-steels" come not so much from the $30 more worth of raw material in a given blade, but the extra 30 minutes it takes to rough-grind it. That means not only the maker's time but likely another belt, a little more electricity, and a whole heckuva lot more time and abrasives if you want a nice hand finish. No one who's done it a couple hundred times actually likes to hand-sand blades, and I guarantee you, no one who's done it a couple hundred times wants to do it for free.
Even for much larger companies, a 10 or 20% increase in tooling costs and labor to use a harder/more wear-resistant steel (or a "cheap" steel at a higher hardness) can absolutely kill a great idea before it even gets to the production floor. The margins involved are very, very tight.
Indeed. In this business, perception is a huge part of reality.
For reasons that make no sense at all performance-wise, a blade that was properly forged from 1095 will command a higher price than the exact same pattern expertly ground from 1095. Similarly, 52100 blades get higher value than O1 blades, even though (and I may catch some heat for "spilling" these beans) 52100 barstock is actually cheaper than O1, and I'll bet you lunch most users couldn't tell the difference between the two in a blind Pepsi Challenge.
But 52100 has extra cachet because "it's ball bearing steel!" and many, many articles have been written by very famous makers about its qualities. Make no mistake, both O1 and 52100 can be used to make truly excellent knives! But 52100 is special-er.
By much the same token, if you blatantly call AEB-L/13C26 "very low-cost, medium-carbon stainless" (which is completely true), no one will touch it in a handmade kitchen knife... it just sounds "cheap". But if you lovingly describe AEB-L/13C26 as "super-fine-grained Swedish razor-blade steel" (which is also true), knives made from it sell very well and command a premium price.
The maker or manu's name is a big factor as well. I will not name names (so don't ask), but I have personally examined some knives from seriously big names that were simply awful in fit-and-finish... rookie stuff... sloppy uneven grinds, thick wobbly dull edges, deep scratches all over... first-year-apprentice kinda knives that even I would be too ashamed of to put my humble name on. But they command remarkably high prices. Simply because of the name on them. *shrug*
True. Economy of scale is a huge factor. I can only grind one blade, assemble one handle, or build one sheath at a time. I buy my steel by the bar or by the pound, not by the ton.
To a certain extent, I'm just picking numbers out of the air here, so bear with me. But I think you'll get the idea...
With nearly any knife produced one-by-one or in small batches, time and tooling and consumables cost much, much more than the actual steels most individual makers and boutique shops use (from 10xx to Elmax and beyond). The only exception that really jumps to mind is high-end damascus, which can easily cost $50-100 per linear inch.
Point being, the "hidden" costs for "super-steels" come not so much from the $30 more worth of raw material in a given blade, but the extra 30 minutes it takes to rough-grind it. That means not only the maker's time but likely another belt, a little more electricity, and a whole heckuva lot more time and abrasives if you want a nice hand finish. No one who's done it a couple hundred times actually likes to hand-sand blades, and I guarantee you, no one who's done it a couple hundred times wants to do it for free.
Even for much larger companies, a 10 or 20% increase in tooling costs and labor to use a harder/more wear-resistant steel (or a "cheap" steel at a higher hardness) can absolutely kill a great idea before it even gets to the production floor. The margins involved are very, very tight.
Indeed. In this business, perception is a huge part of reality.
For reasons that make no sense at all performance-wise, a blade that was properly forged from 1095 will command a higher price than the exact same pattern expertly ground from 1095. Similarly, 52100 blades get higher value than O1 blades, even though (and I may catch some heat for "spilling" these beans) 52100 barstock is actually cheaper than O1, and I'll bet you lunch most users couldn't tell the difference between the two in a blind Pepsi Challenge.
But 52100 has extra cachet because "it's ball bearing steel!" and many, many articles have been written by very famous makers about its qualities. Make no mistake, both O1 and 52100 can be used to make truly excellent knives! But 52100 is special-er.
By much the same token, if you blatantly call AEB-L/13C26 "very low-cost, medium-carbon stainless" (which is completely true), no one will touch it in a handmade kitchen knife... it just sounds "cheap". But if you lovingly describe AEB-L/13C26 as "super-fine-grained Swedish razor-blade steel" (which is also true), knives made from it sell very well and command a premium price.
The maker or manu's name is a big factor as well. I will not name names (so don't ask), but I have personally examined some knives from seriously big names that were simply awful in fit-and-finish... rookie stuff... sloppy uneven grinds, thick wobbly dull edges, deep scratches all over... first-year-apprentice kinda knives that even I would be too ashamed of to put my humble name on. But they command remarkably high prices. Simply because of the name on them. *shrug*
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I wouldn't call any of my insights "enlightening", they're just facts presented for your consideration.
Regarding the makers I was referring to, the issues I mentioned are certainly not a secret among makers or collectors. My only real point was that those knives have a high value regardless.
:foot:
