Why is paper so bad for knives

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Shotgun said:
So we should all just use pot metal steel because it doesn't matter anyway? :confused:
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I thought that was the point of this thread. :p

Seriously though, I like better steel that holds an edge longer, and is tougher as well (or offers some other benefit I'm looking for, depending on application).
However, the knives in the kitchen that my wife uses...woo, who knows what steel they are, and she complains if I make them sharp.

But then she wants her EDC blade able to slice through paper and be hair shaving sharp, and uses it enough that the VG-10 steel needs sharpening from time to time (cardboard and tape doing "an honest day's work"...hey, back to the thread topic again! :D).
 
Boris74 said:
Lol, I know what they said. It was put pretty clearly. What they did not get was sometimes you are miles from home in your buddies pole barn and worked your blade over real good over the days time. You need to put an edge back on it (more work to do). If they have nothing but wood sand paper handy you are good with AUS8 and similar. You will be back to shaving sharp in 5 minutes or less. Sometimes you won't have time to make a trip back home and break out speciality tools or metal spec sand paper to bring it back. Let me tell ya, when you have a D2 blade and your edge is is working as good as a wet floppy turd and you try to sharpen it on the only abrasive in your buddies pole barn, which was 320 grit regular sand paper and all you do is turn the sandpaper into a glossy piece of paper and your edge is still floppy turd sharp, you tend to rethink if a super steel is such a good idea for a working knife. You are not always going to be at home when your blade needs to be sharpened.
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Well I can't disagree that there could be situations where one couldn't get proper materials to sharpen a supersteel. I've never been in that position myself though. I have diamond stones now so its a non factor. I can now put a mediocre edge on any steel. [emoji12] (I learned on sharpmaker and need morepractice on flat stones.)
 
BenchCo Spydermade said:
Well I can't disagree that there could be situations where one couldn't get proper materials to sharpen a supersteel.
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How about a coffee mug?
One time at work (when I was working at the lab) I managed to put a bit better edge on my Strider SmF with the bottom of a coffee mug in the lunchroom.
It was an ugly, scratchy edge, and it sure wouldn't shave...but it did make the knife sharper for use in the afternoon. :)

I fixed it up as soon as I got home though, because it really was an ugly edge. :D
 
stabman said:
How about a coffee mug?
One time at work (when I was working at the lab) I managed to put a bit better edge on my Strider SmF with the bottom of a coffee mug in the lunchroom.
It was an ugly, scratchy edge, and it sure wouldn't shave...but it did make the knife sharper for use in the afternoon. :)

I fixed it up as soon as I got home though, because it really was an ugly edge. :D
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Damn, I tried to agree cuz he made a good point, and here you go makin a better counterpoint! So I'm stickin to my gunz now, thanks stabman! And what's the approximate grit on a coffee mug while were on that? Loving this thread regardless!
 
BenchCo Spydermade said:
Damn, I tried to agree cuz he made a good point, and here you go makin a better counterpoint! So I'm stickin to my gunz now, thanks stabman! And what's the approximate grit on a coffee mug while were on that? Loving this thread regardless!
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It's still a great point. He even said it was a working edge at best and was all hacked up requiring fixing. A working steel on the same cup would be returned to very sharp edge in much shorter order if the skills of the person are up to it. On sand paper though, you will have a working steel hair popping sharp in minutes.

I will use super steels. My brother is giving me a new CR of some sort made from fancy materials and steel. I will reserve it for my gentlemen a carry like birthday parties and Christmas morning opening packages. I'm sure it would do fine on tougher tasks, I'm just not into the massive amount of time needed to return the edge to my standards, which are pretty high. I do know that with light use and daily stropping I won't get it to that point, and that's how I will maintain it.

I do love you guys though. Tough crowd, but pretty easy to talk to for the most part.
 
Boris74 said:
It's still a great point. He even said it was a working edge at best and was all hacked up requiring fixing. A working steel on the same cup would be returned to very sharp edge in much shorter order if the skills of the person are up to it. On sand paper though, you will have a working steel hair popping sharp in minutes.

I will use super steels. My brother is giving me a new CR of some sort made from fancy materials and steel. I will reserve it for my gentlemen a carry like birthday parties and Christmas morning opening packages. I'm sure it would do fine on tougher tasks, I'm just not into the massive amount of time needed to return the edge to my standards, which are pretty high. I do know that with light use and daily stropping I won't get it to that point, and that's how I will maintain it.

I do love you guys though. Tough crowd, but pretty easy to talk to for the most part.
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Well while it would be quicker with a softer steel, your use before sharpening would also be less. It would come down to forming a ratio of cuts made before needing sharpened over strokes needed to sharpen. That would allow you to compare which is truly the better "deal".

Thus if a knife makes 10 cuts and is dull, then 4 strokes to finish it would score a 10/4 or 2.5. Then if a supersteel makes 50 cuts before dull and takes 20 to get back sharp it would score 50/20 or 2.5 you could tell they are even.

But it would change with every change in cutting medium vs sharpening medium.

Does this info exist?
 
Props to Glytch5 for this "Decade Bump"

+1 for search feature.
 
BenchCo Spydermade said:
Well while it would be quicker with a softer steel, your use before sharpening would also be less. It would come down to forming a ratio of cuts made before needing sharpened over strokes needed to sharpen. That would allow you to compare which is truly the better "deal".

Thus if a knife makes 10 cuts and is dull, then 4 strokes to finish it would score a 10/4 or 2.5. Then if a supersteel makes 50 cuts before dull and takes 20 to get back sharp it would score 50/20 or 2.5 you could tell they are even.

But it would change with every change in cutting medium vs sharpening medium.

Does this info exist?
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I already said it, but I will cover it again. The super steels will feel more original edge like after a little bit of work. It's extremely easy to declare them winner in edge retention at that point. What I have observed through experience is the working steels dull down to a decent working edge and hold fast. It will keep doing work for an extended amount of time. Where the super steels wear at a slower rate at first, but when they do start wearing the micro chips become larger and keep wearing, they don't stop at a working edge, they keep degrading. The worse the edge gets and the more you use it the faster they degrade. I've observed it too many times. It's just the nature of them steels. At that point the working edge on a working steel will be appreciated. So once again, if you are doing light to medium duty on a random to non regular basis, yes the super steel will be better for you. If you are doing work, actual work, all day every day, you will learn real fast a blade that dulls to a working edge and holds it is superior to an edge that degrades slow at first then drops off to a horrible edge very fast after the wear sets in. Last thing you want to do at the end of a long work day is spend more than 5 minutes maintaining your tools. 5 minutes on some sand paper beats the hell out of much longer time on a specialized tool.
 
My knives only fear concrete and stainless steel tables.

But I thought it had to so with the silica present in paper and cardboard?

It's a blade, use it.
 
Boris74 said:
It's still a great point. He even said it was a working edge at best and was all hacked up requiring fixing. A working steel on the same cup would be returned to very sharp edge in much shorter order if the skills of the person are up to it.
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A softer steel would have the same scratched up edge in shorter order; the finish of the edge is due to grit/roughness, not the hardness of the steel.
 
Exactly how many ways can we say:
"Wait, you don't get it..." (We get it, it's a forum about knives, really.)
"Honest day's work..." (Which means what? Sitting around cutting cardboard for 8 hours 5 days a week?)
"No, actually you are wrong..." (Okay, well :rolleyes:)
"You don't seem to understand..." (I see ...)
"What you declare is backwards..." (os yas uoy fI)
A necrobump, for all this? IS there actually a point to the topic? Those that know the least, know it the loudest (and often need to clarify their clarifications and state things ad infinitum)
 
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