Why is this happening!??? (forging)

[jdm61]

The first thing that I noticed in your post was that you were running your forge at 10 pounds. I have had both an NC Knifemaker and a Chile Habanero and have never had to run either of them at any more than 4 pounds for forging. even with only one big burner going on the Chile, it still can get up close to 2100 rather quickly if the air intake is all the way open. I use a pipe and the small 1/2 burner for heat treating.

 

[Troop]

Here are a couple of questions for you that might help clear things up a bit.

What temp are you working your steel at? You can base this by the color of the metal when it comes out of the forge as long as your shop isn't to brightly lit. Most blacksmith shops were dimly lit so the smith could see the color of the metal. Most steels (at least the ones that I am familiar with for blacksmithing) are worked around 1800 degrees which would be a bright orange color. If the metal is more of a yellow color then you are getting the steel closer to 2000 degrees and the metal will oxidize more at that tempurature. If it is a dull orange/bright red then it is around 1500 degrees and wont move as easily

Are you wiping the scale off your anvil when you put the steel back in the forge? If any of the scale is left on the anvil when you start forging again then it will leave "dents" in the hot metal that will have to be ground out later (I learned this the hard way).

How much scale are you noticing on your steel when it comes out of the forge? If there is a lot of scale that comes off with the first few hammer blows then your forge is too hot and you are causing the metal to oxidize to much.

I might be on the wrong track with this, but it seems to me that you are getting the steel to hot and causing to much oxidation resulting in a lot of scale that is leaving those dents in the metal. Either that or you just have crappy steel that has impurities in it that are forming voids when they burn out.

Hi, Donald. Thanks very much for your reply. I could definitely use all the help that I could get.
O.K. I also think that I'm getting the blade much too hot. I'm getting it up to a yellow color when it comes out. I wanted to get it hot enough to be able to move it; a thick piece of 1095, (1/4") And, when attempting to work with A2, which apparently is nearly impossible, I really had to get that thing hot just to be able to do anything with it. As I mentioned in a post above, that thing would actually get harder between heats! :thumbdn:
And, yes, I definitely have to clean the anvil between heats. I wasn't doing that every time.
- Thanks again...you helped me out big time. :thumbup:

 

[Troop]

The first thing that I noticed in your post was that you were running your forge at 10 pounds. I have had both an NC Knifemaker and a Chile Habanero and have never had to run either of them at any more than 4 pounds for forging. even with only one big burner going on the Chile, it still can get up close to 2100 rather quickly if the air intake is all the way open. I use a pipe and the small 1/2 burner for heat treating.

Thanks, Joe. Yeah....I'm apparently blasting the heck out of the steel, running at 10 lbs. I'm gonna go down to around 5 lbs. and see how that works.
- Thanks, Bro' :thumbup:

 

[Donald Babcock]

Hi, Donald. Thanks very much for your reply. I could definitely use all the help that I could get.
O.K. I also think that I'm getting the blade much too hot. I'm getting it up to a yellow color when it comes out. I wanted to get it hot enough to be able to move it; a thick piece of 1095, (1/4") And, when attempting to work with A2, which apparently is nearly impossible, I really had to get that thing hot just to be able to do anything with it. As I mentioned in a post above, that thing would actually get harder between heats! :thumbdn:
And, yes, I definitely have to clean the anvil between heats. I wasn't doing that every time.
- Thanks again...you helped me out big time. :thumbup:

The yellow color for 1095 isn't really too high to be forging it, unless you are having to heat the blade up many many times during the forging process. The only problem is that this is towards the high end of the temp range before it is to hot so it will cause a bit more oxidation to occur. Try bringing it down to a bright orange (1800-1900 degrees) instead of the yellow color (2000-2100 degrees) and see if that helps.

 

[Troop]

The yellow color for 1095 isn't really too high to be forging it, unless you are having to heat the blade up many many times during the forging process. The only problem is that this is towards the high end of the temp range before it is to hot so it will cause a bit more oxidation to occur. Try bringing it down to a bright orange (1800-1900 degrees) instead of the yellow color (2000-2100 degrees) and see if that helps.

O.K., Donald...will do.
- Thanks again. :thumbup:

 

[Dantor]

we need to get a web cam in troops place, cause i'm dyin to know how it's coming out! good luck bro and nice help all

 

[Bruce Evans]

OK you have been given all the tricks to fix the forge now let me give you a fun trick to get the scale off.....Randall Graham showed me this trick at Batsons one year a long long time ago,forge with a wet anvil and wet hammer....no I am not joking,literaly put a thin layer of water on the anvil face and dip the hammer in the slack bucket,when you hit the steel the first time it will sound like you just lit a firecracker in the smithy,the steam will literaly blow the scale off the steel as you forge.Just wipe a new layer of water on the anvil face in between each heat....
make sure you dry the anvil and hammer off good when your done so they dont rust...

Ok back to the good ideas you have been getting....Yes they look like scale pits to me also,plus you are probably getting the tip area of the blade way to hot waiting for the rest of the blade to come up to heat and thus burning the steel.

Bruce

 

[Troop]

OK you have been given all the tricks to fix the forge now let me give you a fun trick to get the scale off.....Randall Graham showed me this trick at Batsons one year a long long time ago,forge with a wet anvil and wet hammer....no I am not joking,literaly put a thin layer of water on the anvil face and dip the hammer in the slack bucket,when you hit the steel the first time it will sound like you just lit a firecracker in the smithy,the steam will literaly blow the scale off the steel as you forge.Just wipe a new layer of water on the anvil face in between each heat....
make sure you dry the anvil and hammer off good when your done so they dont rust...

Ok back to the good ideas you have been getting....Yes they look like scale pits to me also,plus you are probably getting the tip area of the blade way to hot waiting for the rest of the blade to come up to heat and thus burning the steel.

Bruce

Thanks, Dantor and Bruce.....At this point I'll try anything!
I'll probably have to wait until Monday AM for an opportunity forge again...I'll keep y'all posted. (O-1, as opposed to A2 this time, I'm thinkin')
Yeah..Bruce. I am definitely getting the edge and tip area too hot while waiting for the rest of the (thick) blade to heat up.
- Thanks again for all you guys' help. You guys know that you're the best, right?

 

[Bruce Evans]

if you try the wet forging I want to know if you jump the first time (I did) the flatter the steel the louder the pop will be.This is a old trick by the way and not something new to try.Practice makes perfect,Good Luck
Bruce

 

[Troop]

if you try the wet forging I want to know if you jump the first time (I did) the flatter the steel the louder the pop will be.This is a old trick by the way and not something new to try.Practice makes perfect,Good Luck
Bruce

Bro'...thanks for the heads up! Sounds like I'm going to need to change my pants after this!
- Thanks again for your help!