Why is W&SS so in love with customs?

kgd

kgd

Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
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Not that I'm complaining about this, but have made a concerted effort to visit other sub-forms these past couple of days here on BF and I've come to realize that WS&S is rather unique in its combination of a varied knife user base that routinely incorporate customs and semi-customs knives.

Clearly the maker's areas are devoted to customs, but look at general knife discussion and it seems a rare day that a custom knife ever get mentioned. Even when I started posting a bunch of customs stuff out there, the reception seems very luke warm.

Personally - I avoided customs for a long time because of a series of misconceptions. Here were my main reasons:

Misconception 1. Customs are expensive. I find that the custom and semi-custom design and makers that I respect the most tend to be as or cheaper than the equivalent production makers. This was a revelation to figure this out, but by and large it seems true.

Misconception 2. Customs have enormous wait times. You order a knife and you don't get it for 6 mo. This certainly hasn't been my experience and often, semi-customs are had by buying something that is already available.

Misconception 3. Customs are untested - they need proof of concept before you can trust them. I tend to disagree with this. While you do not get oodles of reviews from independent users providing feedback on the same knife, you do get a tonne of time spent by a single maker evaluating that knife during its manufacture. Also many makers do at least some heat treat tests to ensure performance of their blades. The fact that they do this to each knife they make beats the heck out of any QA/QC a production company can perform.

So why does WS&S love its customs so much?

I know we debated some of the merits of semi-customs last week. But I want to hear when and why each of you custom lovers out there chose to take the custom plunge.

Was it something about a new design that struck your fancy?
Was it because of a review from somebody like bearthedog?
Spurious decision?

Were you ever not happy with a decision (no makers need be directly mentioned)? Why?
 
I like to support the little guy. I have loved every custom knife I have ever owned. I think custom makers put alot more effort into making a customer happy and stand behind their products. Also, fit and finish is paid alot more attention to IMO.

Plus customs are cool:cool:
 
I like the personal connection you get with the maker. There is just something about telling them about what you'd like and then getting what their interpretation of that is. Almost every time I've had it come in above my expectations. Also, the devil is in the details, and they tend to pay attention to the details.
 
after settling down in here i went and checked out the rest of the forum and was surprised.

i noticed that reviews of knives in other forums often included carrying a knife and cutting string and cardboard...not a bad test when included with other stuff but it seems like that's all the cutting that's done.

i see reviews here and there are photos of wood splitting and wood shaving and often work in the kitchen...at least to me that is far more relevant.

the customs that are often showed and carried around here are very affordable and are great performers. i have had the pleasure of handling a ton of knives made by several makers that hang out in this forum and they are all great knives.

another nice thing about the customs often used and shown around here is that they are made by woodsmen for the woods...so they are made by people that use knives, based on what they have found works...not drawn up in a CAD program based on nice looks...
 
Like JW its nice to support the lil guy, but more than that I like working with the maker. I like the conversations I have with them and they make you feel that you were a part of the blades construction. I feel the finished product has more character than production blades. True the majority of my customs were purchased on the for sale threads and not directly made for me, but when I see a knife available sometimes it just grabs me and I must have it. I never got that way with a production knife.
I know if I have a problem with a blade, I can contact the maker and get it taken care of alot faster than the best production company. Some reviews have been a reason I purchased knives from some makers, but sometimes its just the look of the knife that makes me pull the trigger.

We have some of the best makers here on this forum that actively contribute. So we know they use knives the same as us and undestand what works well. Pick up a knife that these guys make and you understand that right away.
 
These are all good points. I'll throw out a couple of negatives just for impartiality.

1) Pictures of knives are usually a bit misleading. Even though sometimes the photographer tries to convey scale, it is really difficult to gage the size of a knife in a photo. Close ups or angles make actual dimensions difficult to discern. WS&S is better than other sites of people showing knives in the hand. I notice for example Koyote always has his knives on his website with a couple of hand shot. Even then - I suspect Koyote has some of gigantic hams.

2) Blade balance and the overall heft to a knife is really hard to judge. I'm sometimes completely surprised at how light or sometimes how heavy a knife feels based on what it looks like. So as in point 1 you have to have a bit of faith in the maker describing these characteristics.

3) - actually and extension of (1). Knives in pictures usually look a little bit better then they do in person. This is purely a circumstance thing. Usually the artsy photo is done up with a freshly cleaned knives; wooden handles are oiled to bring out that grain etc.

On the other hand - the above negativisms are no less applicable to productions. In fact, productions pay high end photographers and marketers the big bucks to propogate all those little white lies (think cold steel video). The only difference is you can sometimes pre-handle a production at a shop before you buy.
 
customs are always more exciting to see! thats for sure. i think i have a catalog in my head of every production knife ive searched them so many times.
 
KGD- The picture thing is a good point. Thats when specs and a good in hand shot usually gives you good idea, but nothing is certain. Kind of makes it exciting. Also I have gotten knives that looked crappy in a makers photo, but looks alot better in person.
 
For me, the thing that draws me to knives is the simple utility of them. They can be used for so many different things and they have been used since the beginning of time.

To take a hand made knife into the woods and use it is much more appealing to me than taking a knife out that has been made by machine the whole way through. When I take a hand made knife out, I feel like there could have been someone a couple hundred years ago using the same knife to do the same task that I am using it for. You can't say that about a combat knife with a powder-coated blade.

That's why I love customs so much. I do own productions as well, I just have a closer bond to the customs I guess.
 
I also like to support the little guy. I like using something that someone crafted. I like all the little imperfections that may show the hand-craftedness of the blade, handle, or sheath.
 
Personally, I will probably never buy another production fixed blade again, well maybe a Mora. And I will probably never recommend a production knife if getting a custom is an option.

Why would you when there are so many custom/semi-custom makers out there that produce quality stuff for nearly the same price, and in steels and materials you can't get from a commercial company.

Also, as others stated you usually get better customer service, and your questions are answered by the person who actually made the knife. And hey, why not support the little guy?

I think the general forum is mostly were people start out on this forum, and where general knife users hang out. That's how I got started on this forum anyways. You know, the guys who just want to go to Walmart and get a good knife that they like for cutting open boxes and string, etc. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact that is what most commercial knife makers cater to, because there are more people like that out there which equals more sales.

On the other hand here in the WS&S forum you have people who do most of there cutting on wood and game, and they prefer carbon steel because they do a LOT of cutting and want to be able to sharpen there knives easily. They also will likely prefer a Scandi or Convex edge, which is nearly impossible to find in a production knife.

So, different strokes for different folks I guess.
Just my thoughts and observations.
 
What company makes Nessmuks?

How many companies are making full tang scandi Bushcraft knives?

How many companies other than Bark River and Fallkniven (both incredibly popular on this forum also) make a nice convex grind?

I think it has to do with what folks here want and where tthey can find it.
 
when you get a custom, it is to your exact specs, so then once you get it you dont have to re-grind it or change the handle or make a usable sheath. a custom is just ready to go.
 
My 1st custom by DPKnives is currently getting some pants made by Ilbruche, so I'll let you know why customs are awesome next week :D
 
Much of what I would say has been said already, so I'll just add this: why should I spend my hard-earned money on a compromise when, for the same price (or very little more and sometimes less), I could have exactly what I want?

Wait times are so short with the makers around here as well—Bryan Breeden told me the wait for my new custom would be about a month, what, maybe a week-week and a half ago? Today I got an email saying he would be starting on it Tuesday and it should be done on Wednesday! I've already got one of Fiddleback's Bushcrafters on the way to take the edge off the wait, too, I'm just waiting on a sheath to be made for it. :D

You just can't beat the customer service and awesomeness of these guys. :thumbup:
 
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hollowdweller said:
How many companies other than Bark River and Fallkniven (both incredibly popular on this forum also) make a nice convex grind?
Click to expand...

That is the big one for me. I end up convexing them anyways....but I like having a knife that comes with a good convex edge.

I'm real picky about handle material. I like something that is unique and nice to look at as well. Once in a while I'll find a micarta handle I like, but I prefer natural materials like wood or stag.

It's like the choice between owning a Ford Taurus or a 4X4 you built up yourself. You can have what everyone else has, or you can have something unique.
 
I agree with much of what has already been said.

And I'll add this:

For me, and for many others here I'm sure, wilderness outings are deeply personal experiences - the source of some of life's best moments and memories. Sometimes one's gear actually becomes part of the experience, rather than just a facilitator. I display my knife collection in cabinets and on wall mounts around my home. From where I sit now, I can look at a knife and remember using it to split kindling next to a mountain lake, clean a salmon or trout after an early morning fishing trip, make fuzz sticks, or prepare dinner.

I like knowing that a knife that I have developed such a personal connection with during its working life was given personal attention during its creation as well.

You get this with a custom.

All the best,

- Mike
 
All fair questions and good comments. Personally, my concern is different. Heat treatment. As we all know, the performance of the steel is largely determined by it. All O1, or D2 is not equal, nor is any other steel.

My concerns are not with the grind of the knife, or the edge geometry, both of which are easily changed, but with the steel itself. Without proper, and consistent heat treatment the steel will not perform to my expectations.

How does a relatively small maker determine the quality of the heat treatment on the steel he uses? :confused:

How is the consistency? :confused:

How many makers really test their knives? (and I'm not talking about just making fuzz-sticks)... ;) Edge retention, durability, flexibility, etc... :confused:

How much will it take before it fails? :confused:

I'd be very interested in that information. Without it, how can you rely on your equipment in what may be (or turn into) a survival situation.
 
I used to just collect production knives when I started back in 1994. I got my first custom by Paul Sarganis in 1999 and my second from Arno Bernard the same year. After that, I decided I only wanted customs but I couldn't really afford the knives I wanted so then that's when I decided to start making my own knives. Now that I'm a knifemaker, all I can afford to buy are production knives knives. :o
 
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