Why no damascus in the current lineup?

Artfully Martial

Artfully Martial

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Jun 8, 2005
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I'd love to see a Spyderco with some damascus on it or some other interesting stylistic tricks, like on the Kershaw tyrade for instance.
 
So far, Sal has resisted the call of damascus better than Picard resisted the Borg.
 
I'm not sure why damascus knives must be put in a glass case and cannot be used.

It would be uncharitable to you to suggest that you actually believe damascus blades are not usable, despite saying so much (I can't imagine anyone actually believing the express claim). So let me see if I can understand what you're actually arguing implicitly.

Perhaps you're arguing that adding damascus blades would increase the cost without enhancing the performance and therefore the only benefit would be aesthetic. There's certainly some reason to believe that damascus is used primarily for stylistic reasons, over steel performance reasons.

You would then argue that Spyderco does not implement features or materials that have only aesthetic benefits.

Alas, this cannot be held to be a reasonable argument since a very large amount of Spyderco's current lineup includes stylistic flourishes just for the sake of aesthetics. The spyder symbols in the FRN handles, for instance. Viele's trademark three holes in the blade. The skeletonized spyder designs on the "S" as well. We could all name a long list of others.

Thus, if your claim is "Spyderco does not use damascus because damascus is just for aesthetics, and Spyderco only integrates materials and features for performance alone" then this is expressly contradictory to the evidence that I just cited--that many of Spyderco's features, materials and designs are used precisely for aesthetic enhancement without much improvement to performance.

But I think that the claim that damascus itself cannot improve performance is false at any rate, especially when you expand the term damascus to include combinations of steels, like san mai or the tyrade's 154CM/D2 combination. Many blade makers cover the edge-holding core with a more rust resistant steel. In fairness, I don't think these alternative steel combinations were obviously entailed by my use of the word damascus.

But perhaps I have you all wrong. Why can't we use damascus knives?
 
Well said! I have an old armando beltrame lever lock with a damascus blade that cuts pretty well and is easy to sharpen. People always have to check out the blade when I flick it out. Russ
 
At one time I was one of those, perhaps even the most vocal of those, begging Sal to offer something in damascus. Over time, I've come to see a few problems with that idea.

Performance would not be an issue for me. From everything I've heard, the damascus I desire (Odin's Eye Damasteel) performs very well. However, I've become more and more reluctant to purchase something "just because". A damascus Spyderco would have to meet a group of conditions that reduce the chances of anything "off the shelf" filling the bill for me considerably before I'd purchase it. I could be wrong, but I believe that as knives get more expensive, most people become more selective and while the "specs" for that perfect knife would differ from person to person, many would pass on a knife that differed from their ideal by a significant degree.

Paul
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Hi Artfully Martial,

We did a run with Tim Zowada Damascus a while back and we did a run with damascus bolsters mde by Ed Schempp.

Ed Schempp has offered to make up a special damascus run for us. I think I'd like to take him up on his offer. Haven't decided on a model yet.

We're also planning a Mule Team project in damascus down the road as well.

sal
 
"Haven't decided on a model yet"

Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian


I think a C83 Damascus Lg Persian would be sold out in days.
So please put me on the list!:D
 
But I think that the claim that damascus itself cannot improve performance is false at any rate, especially when you expand the term damascus to include combinations of steels, like san mai or the tyrade's 154CM/D2 combination. Many blade makers cover the edge-holding core with a more rust resistant steel. In fairness, I don't think these alternative steel combinations were obviously entailed by my use of the word damascus
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Laminated steel like "san mai" , or two steels welded together like Kershaw does it in the Tyrade isn't damascus. There are some good performing damascus steels available, or can be made by anyone with the knowledge but there is no magic about it. It won't perform better than the steel that's in it. Joe
 
You're precisely correct, Mastiff. Hence, I specifically noted that those steels are not entailed by the word damascus. My point was that, in lieu of damascus blades, those would be very interesting to me as well. And while we're on the subject of functional or stylistic equivalents to damascus, mokume is a beautiful material to use for bolsters etc and that could really add some pizazz....I wouldn't mind seeing that either.

As per a damascus schemp, I think perhaps a CF/Damascus khukuri might be nice.

I'll get to many of the other points after lunch.

Thanks guys for the info. I had no idea that spyderco had produced anything in damascus...and I did look.
 
I see what you're saying Deacon, and I agree entirely. If I wasn't a fan of the particular Spyderco before it went damascus, I probably won't be after either.

But I think there are some Spyderco knives that are just so boring looking. Wonderful knives, but I have the money to buy the knives that look as good as they work, and thus, I tend to skip out on knives I quite like (that Khukuri is a good example) just because I do care about aesthetics. These knives make excellent candidates for some exotic touches in a sprint run.

I was thinking more along the lines of "why not do sprint runs with damascus occasionally" then "why not produce a particular model in damascus." This way, the chances of us finding that Spyderco where all our preferences line up increases dramatically.

I suppose my request for damascus reflects a broader concern. As my budget for knives increases dramatically, the price becomes more and more irrelevant and I can pick out the knives I want merely for what I like about them instead of compromising. So on the high end of Spyderco, say, between 150-300 dollars, I'm left feeling a bit empty. I don't need a stronger knife than those I have--what I'm looking for in that price range is stylistic improvements over the existing very useful/tough knives below that price range.

So mokume, CF (Spyderco is clearly already good about CF integration), damascus and so on, those things interest me a lot right now. I mean...maybe a Spyderco "Gold class" equivalent, but in a lower price range (Gold class knives seem to start at like 600....which is more than I want to spend at the moment).
 
I also would love to see it in the Persian. They would be made for each other.
 
I would absolutely love a Centofante 4 in damascus, and with carbon fiber scales would top it off. It is already a very elegant design IMO, a very fine slicer, very suited for a gentlemans knife and the 3D look of CF with a silver spider (chance say gold or Mokume) would be incredible and I would beg for one. Pleaseeeeeeee.

(but maybe it would be just me)
 
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I like that large damascus Persian idea–it'd be a beauty! How about large and small Persians?
An old school damascus blade JD Smith would be awesome as well!
 
damascus + san mai (Ariel Salaverria for one) or composite blades (any old Michael Walker zipper will show ya) would be even nicer
 
sffar said:
I like that large damascus Persian idea–it'd be a beauty! How about large and small Persians?
Click to expand...

I cannot imagine anything better than C83 & C105 Persians in damascus by Ed Schempp. I will get a second job just to get two sets.
 
I will commit to buying any of the suggestions given so far as long as it's not a lockback. I might still buy the knife if its a lockback, but I can guarantee a purchase if its a framelock, bbl, compression lock or liner lock.

I do have an idea though that I'm not sure has been done before...I keep a good eye on the custom world, but you can't see everything at once, so maybe I'm wrong.

Imagine a Persian with a CF scale, a damascus blade, and a mokume framelock. Maybe in a pattern like this
Mokume-J-B.gif


Actually, I wouldn't mind if it was just a straight up mokume framelock with no scales at all.


Or the schempp kris...that would look so exotic.
 
MCM said:
"Haven't decided on a model yet"

Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian
Lg Persian


I think a C83 Damascus Lg Persian would be sold out in days.
So please put me on the list!:D
Click to expand...

When I heard the name "Schempp," that exact knife came to my mind as well.
 
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