Why no Ontario love?

The ESEE/Ontario thing used to be on a thread in the ESEE sub-section, but Jeff took it down before the sub-forum was closed. Basically, Randall's Adventure Training (RAT Cutlery) partnered with Ontario to produce the RAT line-up but the brand/names were all owned by RAT (now ESEE).

As I understood it, (Going from memory so I may be missing a few details) RAT wanted to make some changes/updates to the knives but Ontario didn't want to go in that direction and when RAT Cutlery wanted to go with a different manufacturer to partner with, Ontario sued for the "RAT" name along with RTAC and some others I believe.

Seems like a dirty move seeing as how RAT Cutlery/ESEE owned all of those names, but was well smaller than Ontario at the time so they just walked away from the names they established and changed over to ESEE rather than getting caught up in a massive legal battle.

That's why I've always had an issue with Ontario but I don't know that it's kept me from buying from them exclusively - I just buy from ESEE if I have the choice between the two (Becker is another nice option using 1095). ESEE also has a no-BS warranty where they replace anything (even if you abuse it) without asking questions. They do make fun of you on message boards if you abuse the warranty doing something stupid like throwing it or banging on rocks, but they honor it anyways.

The thing I hate is that with the separation of ESEE and Ontario, we lost out on the D2 RAT3 (which was absolutely awesome).
 
Ontario love or Ontario Ranger love?

Ontario Rangers are bomb-proof, inexpensive knives made of tough as nails 5160, designed for and stood behind by a real deal Army Ranger. They usually demand a bit of tweaking or sanding, but what do you want for that price. And they aren't supposed to be delicate little exquisitely finished William Henrys. The are basher/smasher/choppers. You ever seen an Army Ranger and what those guys do?

So what's not to like? The only reason I don't have one is because I snagged a couple pre-Ontario Ranger customs back in the day.
 
I have had my eye on OKC Apache Tac-1 for a while. Good looking knife. With that said, I will pick up my first Ontario knives this weekend.

I have the ubiquitous Rat-1 (OD Green) and an OKC Ranger Falcon with the 5160 steel (black micarta handles).

Looking forward to them.
 
marcinek said:
Ontario love or Ontario Ranger love?

Ontario Rangers are bomb-proof, inexpensive knives made of tough as nails 5160, designed for and stood behind by a real deal Army Ranger. They usually demand a bit of tweaking or sanding, but what do you want for that price. And they aren't supposed to be delicate little exquisitely finished William Henrys. The are basher/smasher/choppers. You ever seen an Army Ranger and what those guys do?

So what's not to like? The only reason I don't have one is because I snagged a couple pre-Ontario Ranger customs back in the day.
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I see your point. I guess it is love for the Ranger series knives. I only know the Utilac II and RAT model 1 from Ontario. I would hope all their knives would be this quality.

I will say that another Ranger will be in the near future!! There mighht be a BK2 in the trade setion soon!! :eek:
 
Ka-Bar is Marines through and through, but I did see one that has an Army tang stamp. Onterio has Army style bayonets, Ranger knives, and the SP line. So I keep them in the back of my mind as the "ACME" type military knife place. Not to mention some Navy, Air Force, and Marine blades too.
 
I have a brand new US Army stamped KaBar. 1095...stacked leather handle. It's beautiful!
 
I like their RAT branded knives...little more affordable on a college budget than the ESSE....I would also say I think many people enjoy their military knives...the bayonets, the air force survival, some of the spec plus line...I think there's just so many knives out there now-adays, it's easy to get lost in the fray.
 
EZ Bake said:
The ESEE/Ontario thing used to be on a thread in the ESEE sub-section, but Jeff took it down before the sub-forum was closed. Basically, Randall's Adventure Training (RAT Cutlery) partnered with Ontario to produce the RAT line-up but the brand/names were all owned by RAT (now ESEE).

As I understood it, (Going from memory so I may be missing a few details) RAT wanted to make some changes/updates to the knives but Ontario didn't want to go in that direction and when RAT Cutlery wanted to go with a different manufacturer to partner with, Ontario sued for the "RAT" name along with RTAC and some others I believe.

Seems like a dirty move seeing as how RAT Cutlery/ESEE owned all of those names, but was well smaller than Ontario at the time so they just walked away from the names they established and changed over to ESEE rather than getting caught up in a massive legal battle.

That's why I've always had an issue with Ontario but I don't know that it's kept me from buying from them exclusively - I just buy from ESEE if I have the choice between the two (Becker is another nice option using 1095). ESEE also has a no-BS warranty where they replace anything (even if you abuse it) without asking questions. They do make fun of you on message boards if you abuse the warranty doing something stupid like throwing it or banging on rocks, but they honor it anyways.

The thing I hate is that with the separation of ESEE and Ontario, we lost out on the D2 RAT3 (which was absolutely awesome).
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I agree with EZ Bake. I'll support the USA made Rowen/Esee knives from here on out. I have an Izula II, 3, 6 (personal favorite) and he Junglas, and wife and three boys have izula II's also. They are extremely fine blades. Tough as hell with the best warranty in the business. Jeff Randll also offers the everyday guy outdoor survival training classes at "no charge". Not too many companies do that.
 
Just purchased an ontario Tak 1 and SP10 bowie. I think they will be awesome performers. I have my eye on the RTAK II-B in 5160 too.
 
My only Ontario is an RTAK II but there are lots of other Ontarios that I want. Would be nice if Ontario had a dedicated sub-forum on BFC.
 
Since they are in upstate NY where I grew up they have a sentimental value to me. I went to school in Buffalo and Alfred NY and never knew they were there. They are located south of Buffalo, about 15 mi from the PA line.

They do make decent nice knives. Not as flashy or tacticool as some but very functional. I plan on buying some of their larger fixed blades to keep my three RAT1's company.

EZ Bake said:
The ESEE/Ontario thing used to be on a thread in the ESEE sub-section, but Jeff took it down before the sub-forum was closed. Basically, Randall's Adventure Training (RAT Cutlery) partnered with Ontario to produce the RAT line-up but the brand/names were all owned by RAT (now ESEE).

As I understood it, (Going from memory so I may be missing a few details) RAT wanted to make some changes/updates to the knives but Ontario didn't want to go in that direction and when RAT Cutlery wanted to go with a different manufacturer to partner with, Ontario sued for the "RAT" name along with RTAC and some others I believe.

Seems like a dirty move seeing as how RAT Cutlery/ESEE owned all of those names, but was well smaller than Ontario at the time so they just walked away from the names they established and changed over to ESEE rather than getting caught up in a massive legal battle.

That's why I've always had an issue with Ontario but I don't know that it's kept me from buying from them exclusively - I just buy from ESEE if I have the choice between the two (Becker is another nice option using 1095). ESEE also has a no-BS warranty where they replace anything (even if you abuse it) without asking questions. They do make fun of you on message boards if you abuse the warranty doing something stupid like throwing it or banging on rocks, but they honor it anyways.

The thing I hate is that with the separation of ESEE and Ontario, we lost out on the D2 RAT3 (which was absolutely awesome).
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Unfortunate, but when you partner with a company you in part sell your business. It opens the door to all kinds of management shenanigans. Depends on contract details of course, but management will generally find a way to give you the bone.
 
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I have a RD4,6 and an Afghan. I find the handles a little wide and blocky as previously mentioned. I am in the process of reprofiling the RD4 handle to slim and contour it more to my liking then I will make some wood scaes for it . It's half done sitting on a back shelf. This thread is a good prompt for me to get after it again. I'll post some pics soon.
 
Count me in as another guy with a bug up his ass about the ESEE thing. Lots of manufacturers out there, so I give OKC a pass.
 
Didn't really know about the OKC/ESEE thing. Still, I doubt we all know what exactly went down there. When two companies partner it gets complicated and splits rarely go smoothly. It wouldn't affect my buying habits at all unless there was some clear wrong doing by one side or the other.
 
mcrow said:
You must not be paying attention around here but Ontario knives get recommened to people a lot around here and I think that people here generally think they make a quality knife at a good price.
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That may be so now but about 4-5 years ago all I saw was Ontario hate. I believe it had to do with poor heat treating or somesuch. They may well be top notch now I have no idea, but I do remember the vehemence of the past. It was just before Camillus tanked.
 
upnorth said:
That may be so now but about 4-5 years ago all I saw was Ontario hate. I believe it had to do with poor heat treating or somesuch. They may well be top notch now I have no idea, but I do remember the vehemence of the past. It was just before Camillus tanked.
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Yeah, I suppose that opinions change over time but seems that they are pretty well respected around here these days.
 
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