Why no super steel?

ferider said:
There are some .... The red one below is 20CV:

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These three are all CPM Cruwear:

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I have several traditionals in CPM 154, which I do consider a "Supersteel". For example the 2018 BF knife.

A good custom maker will let you pick from whatever you want.

Anyways, bottom line is that traditionals are not made for youtube rope cutting tests. Focus is different. My traditionals do stand up to hard use.
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Hear, Hear!!
 
TheRealJewf said:
I am pretty new to BF, although not new at all to knives and traditional knives. Anyone have insight as to why super steels haven't made it into the traditional world? Even custom makers are still using 154CM, which is a fine steel but where is the magnacut? the m390? the LC200N? Anyone know of custom makers using them that I might have overlooked? Is it just that traditionals aren't really made for hard use so the extra expense isn't thought to be needed?

As I said, pretty new to BF and searched to find a similar discussion and didn't see one.
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Michael Zieba makes a M390 slipjoit with carbon fiber covers and Ti liners, called Heritage.
 
I admit I got caught in the newest best steel for folders for a couple of years. I was chasing sprint runs and whatever was coming out in cpm m9thorshammer.

Got to the point where I thought s30v was run of the mill and boring. S30v was and still is very good. I'm so happy Im done with it. I didn't even stretch the legs out on these steels. I strop whatever knife I am carrying every night and sharpen when I can't bring it back. I enjoy the sharpening and edge maintenance aspect of this hobby.

Once I got into traditionals I found a new love for these "lesser steels". I can't think of a time in the last couple years where a traditional would not have got the job done. Of course you may be harder on your knife day to day compared to me. Its so easy to strop back or sharpen 1095 compared to the high speed steels today. I really do love 1095 now and is probably my most used steel right now.

Paul
 
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DustinK said:
The main reason people want super steels is because some YouTube knife expert said they are better. 99% of people wouldn’t have a clue if their knife was chinesiums finest or magnacut if the website they ordered it from didn’t say.
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That is what I often think but I would say most people docwant some semblance of decent edge holding and will at least notice when a knife doesn't deliver it.
They probably get by with big box or hardware display knives in steels they don't know by name, and I would wager theres a good chance they probably haven't experienced any contemporary knife related media either.

There's gotta be a lot of people who are absolutely swayed by hype and media for sure, but either way nobody is gonna let anybody tell them they don't need something.
Only they know if they really do or have just convinced themselves they do.
 
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Hickory n steel said:
That is what I often think but it's not uncommon for me to hear some average Joe talk about how xyz knives do or don't hold an edge, so I would say most people do at least want some semblance of decent edge holding and will notice when a knife doesn't deliver it.
They probably get by with Buck Case or Gerber knives in steels they don't know by name, and I would wager theres a good chance they probably haven't experienced any contemporary knife related media.

There's gotta be a lot of people who are absolutely swayed by hype and media for sure, but nobody will ever let you tell them they don't absolutely need the latest thing and theres always a chance it truly does benefit them.
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I completely agree. Most people carry around a dull cheap folder that they may run through a crappy pull through sharpener and are good with it.

I am shocked at the state of knives people carry now but I used to be one of those people. The new steels are beneficial, but feel there is diminished return at a certain point.
 
Jakeywax31 said:
I completely agree. Most people carry around a dull cheap folder that they may run through a crappy pull through sharpener and are good with it.

I am shocked at the state of knives people carry now but I used to be one of those people. The new steels are beneficial, but feel there is diminished return at a certain point.
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I know more about steels than I care to because it's unavoidable in this hobby, but as long as I can maintain my edge in no time I'm happy not to know the steel by name.

The farthest I've really gone down caring is my recent thought of trying some carbide edge box cutter blades.
 
You have to hunt a bit, but the stuff is out there. The G Sakai Trekker has a ZDP-189 main blade. The Terravantium Terrain 365 has a Dendritic Cobalt blade, and the LionSteel Roundhead has an M-390 blade. The MKM Malga 6 also has an M-390 blade. I enjoy my premium blades as much as I do the electric starter on my car.View attachment 1881095View attachment 1881093View attachment 1881094
 
I have a Boker Davis Hunter II Lockback in S30V, a Boker Davis Hunter II Slipjoint in N690, and a Queen Dan Burke Cattle Knife in BG42. Plus multiple Queens in D2.
 
I have 1 in "440C equivalent", one supposedly in 440C ... the package, manufacturer's website, and ads claimed "440C!". The blade etch however, proclaims "440A". Three with CPM154, (all Buck: the 2018 Forum knife, and two SK Blades 110's) and one Buck 110 with S30V. I'm not sure if it qualifies as a "Super Steel", but have one 110 with 5160.
I like them, but to be honest they don't cut/slice as well as my 440A/420HC/1095 bladed knives.
The primary reason being my knives with these "lesser" (note quotes) steels will take and hold an acute 10 degree per side/20 degree inclusive edge without chipping or rolling.
From everything I've read on Blade Forums, the "super steels" require a minimum obtuse 15 DPS/30 degree inclusive or even more obtuse 20 DPS/40 degree inclusive edge "to prevent chipping". With the possible exception of 5160, they are run hard enough that chipping is more likely than rolling if the edge is "too acute" (whatever that is ...)
I have taken them to 12~12.5 degrees per side/24~25 degrees inclusive using a guided rod sharpening system. (made a slot half way between the 10 and 15 degree slots). I'm a bit fearful of making them any more acute than that.
Yes. A mere five degrees can and does "make a world of difference" in cutting/slicing performance.

Do I "need" the "super steels"? Nope. Sure don't. Not even the 440C, which is/was the original abrasion resistant "super steel", to be honest.

1095/440A/420HC and other steels of the same class(es?), and even Buck's 420J2, have always served me well, even when misused for scraping off automotive gaskets, cutting radiator and reinforced hose, up to 8 gauge electrical wire, using the secondary as an awl/scribe on steel and drywall, or cutting linoleum or carpet. (when possible I did use a utility box knife for drywall, linoleum, and carpet ... and cardboard, when I had a bunch of boxes to break down ... rather than my good knife.)

Why did I get the "super steel" knives? I liked the knives, and wanted to see what all the hype was about. 😇 Oh, I got the "440C" to see if it was any better than I remembered from my teen years. About the only pocket knives in my area that didn't claim 440C blades were the various Schrade brands, Utica, Colonial, and Western. Even the sub $2.⁰⁰ gas station specials had "440C" stamped on the tang! Needless to say, the heat treat varied from "what's that?" to "forget sharpening it without a file, grinder, or belt sander." (SiC and Diamond stones/plates hadn't been invented yet.)
Do I anticipate getting a knife with a later "super steel"? Nope. No need to. I already have more knives than necessary to last the rest of my days - even if I wore them out/down to toothpicks one at a time over 3 or 4 years of consistent use, like our grandparents and great grandparents, and their parents, grandparents and great grandparents did.
 
OP, there is a cat not too far from me that makes Magnacut slipjoints. Delight Valley Blades is what you want to google.
 
I have a Buck 110 and 112 with s30v. I've never had to sharpen them, but they are big and don't get as much use as my pocket knife. I used to carry a Buck 301, and after a few weeks, I could tell it was starting to get dull. If I was procrastinating and putting off sharpening it, I'd go several months and dull all three blades. I was using stones to sharpen back then and it took a couple of hours to get an edge back on it.

Six months ago, I replaced the 301 with a Lionsteel Best Man with m390. I've been using it since on the factory edge. Yesterday I pulled it out and decided to sharpen it. It still had a good edge on both blades, despite being used every day. The diamond and Arkansas stones on my KME sharpener made short work of bringing it up to a screaming mirror edge.

I doubt if my Lionsteel will ever get dull.
 
There seems to be quite a few Modern Slipjoint knives with blades made from M390 and such.
Those Modernized Traditional knives really aren't that hard to find and aren't terribly expensive.
Finding a true Traditional with a Super Steel is going to be quite a bit tougher though.

I'm usually not willing to pay a huge markup for the "latest and greatest" steel... but I did spring for a knife with K390.
I will say that I have been extra impressed with K390, that thing won't lose its edge, and I've used the crud out of it.
So maybe I'd get excited about a quality Traditional Knife with a K390 blade, and I'd probably pay the big markup for it.
 
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afishhunter afishhunter I know very little about steels and their advantages or disadvantages but I’m pretty sure there are no edges with obtuse angles. If I remember correctly, an obtuse angle is greater than 90 degrees. Correct me if I’m wrong Gary 5K Qs 5K Qs .
 
I love magnacut and have made a handful of knives with it so far. My personal edc that I made myself last December was my first magnacut knife and I am just really in love with the steel as a daily driver. CPM154 is nice but I truly hate working with it. Even after normalizing the steel it's still hard on cutting tooling compared to normalized magnacut and the A2 tool steel I use. I'd like to give AEB-L a try. Some have reported warping with it but generally that isn't an issue with smaller thinner parts if you do your homework. It's also an older stainless steel and very inexpensive. For production shops it probably comes down to cost, availability and HT procedures. For custom makers like myself, who knows? Maybe just a matter of comfort using 1 steel or a "this is the standard" mindset? Not really wanting to push ones self or try new things as far as material selection goes? Hard to say. I am glad magnacut was introduced shortly after I started making. As a new maker at the time I wasn't pigeon holed into a certain way and my openness to learning afforded me the opportunity to research the steel and actually try it out. From there I learned that I prefer its characteristics compared to what is considered the standard for pocket knife ss.

I've just about used up all my CPM154 and have a lot of Magnacut to work with. That and A2 with be my primary focus going forward in steel selection and I'm excited for it.
 
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I am intrigued by the new Case stockman and trapper in s35vn but I’d like to know more details on their heat treatment and if they can hold an edge like s35vn should.

I have several Case knives in their ss and cv and only one large trapper cv seems to have enough hardness to keep a decent edge. I have one in 154cm that does very well and probably the best of any Case knife I’ve run across. If they have the ht right I might try them but I won’t hold my breath.

I have a couple 2018 forum knife Buck 301 stockman blade in cpm154 ff grind and they are very good along with a 501 squire. So I’m set pretty good for traditional pocket knives. Generally I don’t use my traditional pocket knives in real hard use as I have several 110s and 112s in super steel that are hard use. But it’s still nice to have a superior steel if I’m ever caught with just a stockman and need to do some serious cutting.
 
joeradza said:
afishhunter afishhunter I know very little about steels and their advantages or disadvantages but I’m pretty sure there are no edges with obtuse angles. If I remember correctly, an obtuse angle is greater than 90 degrees. Correct me if I’m wrong Gary 5K Qs 5K Qs .
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"Obtuse" in that 30 to 60 degrees inclusive or greater are not as acute/fine/thin as 20 to 25 degrees. The higher the included angle is, the "duller" an edge is, and the less time before it fees dull/holds a working edge, and needs sharpened.

A straight razor was usually sharpened to between 4 and 5 degrees per side/8 to 10 degrees inclusive. Compared to a straight razor, my 20 degree inclusive edges are "obtuse".

While 89°~90° may not technically be "obtuse", if that is the included edge on a blade, I sure wouldn't want to have to use it. Would you?

You are correct. Mathematically 30 to 60 degrees isn't "obtuse". However, depending on the application and use, it is. 😊
 
It might be because traditionals require more hand work to fit in multiple blades and so those super hard steels are hard to work with. Mostly, I think it is because traditionals are not marketed as HARDCORE SURVIVAL X-TREME NAVY RANGER knives like moderns are. People expect a modern "tactical" knife to do all of the things that the buyer needs to do in daily life such as cutting string, cutting food, prying lids off of paint cans, driving screws, prying up manhole covers, slitting the throats of ninja sentries on special ops missions, and splitting firewood for the daily x-treme survival tasks. To do these normal tasks that we all do, you obviously need the latest and greatest impossible to resharpen steel that costs 50% than regular steel.
Slipjoints are expected to cut stuff, moderns are marketed as weapons and miracle tools.
 
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