Why Not Razor Sharp?

V

Vivi

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Why are some people opposed to putting razor sharp edges on their pocket knives? Duller edges require greater effort to complete a given task, decreasing efficiency. Choosing such is akin to holding a chopping axe near the head when felling a tree.
 
Either because they are actually referring to the bevel of the edge (axes that can take hair off your arm are still a broad bevel, just finely sharpened) or they're fools who don't know what they're talking about. A lot of sheeple and even just the average layperson these days often knows little of knives and looks at them as if they EXPECT to injure themselves because of their inexperience, and seem to think that if they get themselves with a dull blade it won't hurt them. Little do the know how much MORE likely they are to be bitten by a dull blade.

But that's exactly why we have to do our part to educate them!
 
i had a friend tell me once i get my knives too sharp. he asked if i could not sharpen a knife quite so sharp, i asked him why would i want to do that for? he asked me this right after i was accidently cut by a knife i was showing him. he was holding the knife at the time and knew it hardly touched me when i was cut. i agree with vivi about a dull edge requiring a greater effort to cut something. a dull knife isnt much good when you need something cut right now and not a few minutes later. the chances of getting cut are greater with a dull knife too compared to a sharp one.
 
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I don't know - all my coworkers and friends are freak out by how sharp I get a knife, and I can't even whittle hair. They've just never used sharp knives before and are honestly scared to death of them (the cut towards themselves to boot, no matter how many times I tell them otherwise - and I have scars to prove it).
 
richard j said:
i had a friend tell me once i get my knives too sharp. he asked if i could not sharpen a knife quite so sharp, i asked him why would i want to do that for? he asked me this right after i was accidently cut by a knife i was showing him. he was holding the knife at the time and knew it hardly touched me when i was cut. i agree with vivi. a dull knife isnt much good when you need something cut right now and not a few minutes later. the chances of getting cut are greater with a dull knife too compared to a sharp one.
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:eek: You read it here first, folks! ;)

I don't get it, either. There are so many other items; other than edged tools; that are so much better at not cutting, that using a knife for not cutting boggles the mind.
 
And, just to complicate things, at least on Bladeforums, you have to keep coarse-versus-fine sharpening separate from dull-versus-sharp! Bwahahahaha!
 
i find that alot of people misunderstand the difference between a thick or course edge and a dull one. a thick edge ( as on some axes) can still shave hair. a coursely sharpened edge (as on a machete) can also still shave hair.

i once was told that a machete can be left blunt since it wouldn't help if it was sharp :barf: after i sharpened up the machete and let him swing it at some stuff, he agreed with me :thumbup:

i have also had a friend ask if i could sharpen her kitchen knives. but she asked me if i could make them "not so sharp". i told her to just keep putting them in the dishwasher after i sharpened them up and it would be like i never touched them... but i also told her i could just thin the edge and leave it blunt, so that it would cut better but wouldn't be as sharp. she regularly cuts herself on my kitchen knives, that's why she is scared. i just tell he to slow down and be more careful, but she won't have it. :confused:

people also want to know why i need to make things so sharp...i ask them why not its so much easier to cut stuff with a sharp knife. if it wasn't sharp, then what would be the point in carrying it, i might as well just carry a screwdriver for all the cutting it would do.
 
I've cooked plenty in the kitchen and have yet too cut myself (although I did nick my nail once). Granted if you have proper technique and pay attention to what you're doing you really shouldn't be cutting yourself much.

I don't understand why people say my knives are too sharp. Maybe its because I'm lazy, but when I'm cutting something I don't really feel like putting muscle behind it. Thin or thick bevel, I feel that the edge should still be able to shave hair. Edges go through stages in sharpness and unless you're using the wrong edge thickness for the cutting procedure, sharpness will always steadily decrease, not go from razor to dull. It would make sense that the sharper the knife starts out at, the longer it will take the edge to dull.
 
I must live in a different world. In my world, every time I sharpen a few kitchen knives for friends who are used to dull knives, they cut themselves. It is a popular theory that a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one. The theory is supported by the argument that a dull knife requires more force thereby blah blah blah. It was said that people accustomed to dull knives use bad techniques when cutting. WHY? BECAUSE THEY CAN without cutting themselves. In my world, this theory (dull = more dangerous) just doesn't prove out. Theory that is not proven by evidence/testing is a bad theory. I have evidence that a sharp knive is more dangerous than a dull one. I am more likely to cut myself with a sharp knife. My friends do cut themselves more often when their knives are newly sharpened. This theory is nonsense in my world. Of course mileage may vary in your world.
 
thom, maybe i should have been more specific as to what i agreed to. i agreed that a duller edge requres more effort to cut something. just like trying to cut a tomato with a butter knife. it could be done but whats the end result going to look like?
 
My mom is amazed when she cuts stuff with my knives. She cut a tomato the other day and said "Wow" I just smiled and went on. She wants me to sharpen her kitchen knives but they are pieces of crap and she won't use them right so I am afraid she will cut herself if I sharpen them.
 
OK, I'll be odd man out on this one (again).

It depends on what you mean by "razor sharp".

To me, the term "razor sharp" means sharpened at a very fine angle to an extremely fine surface roughness level.

I prefer to sharpen my knives to a 30° inclusive angle, and sometimes I will put the edge at 40° inclusive with a 30° back bevel. I also do not refine the edge by stropping. If I am using a Sharpmaker, I usually stop after the dark rods.

It will still shave hair on my arm, though it does not tree-top them nor push-cut papaer.

OMG, WHY? you ask.

Mostly because it works. I put this level of sharpness on my pocket knives. I use them mostly for cutting jobs in the back yard. I like a toothier edge for those jobs. So that is what I use.



I am fussier when I do edge retention comparisons.
 
Works for me. While a bunch of us knifeknuts will sharpen every knife to 8,000 grit or finer, there are sushi chefs making more delicate cuts than we ever will with knives sharpened on 800 or 1200 grit clay bricks.
 
I've had many people tell me that a "working edge" whatever the hell that is, will last longer than a razor edge. To which I answer, BULL! :rolleyes:

A highly refined, polished edge will outlast a so-called "working edge" edge every time, in every kind of steel. :thumbup::thumbup:

I think the "working edge" bit is used by folks who either don't know how to sharpen a knife, or don't wish to put in the effort. :(

Take a look at Mike Stewart's Bark River knives. :) That mirror polished edge lasts a long time under hard use, and the knives are made from A-2 which isn't exactly known for terriffic edge holding. :p

I understand that a "toothy" edge will cut wet rope quite well, but it won't hold as long as a polished edge. But even a "toothy" edge can, and should be, hair splitting sharp. :thumbup:
 
Here is a perfect example: My mom used dull kitchen knives for years and when I say dull I mean so dull it will not slice paper or much of anything else for that matter. I finally bought her a good kitchen knife and put a high polished edge on it, yes she did cut her self but that was only in the beginning, after she learned to use a sharp knife (not needing to use as much force) she no longer cut her self. If I asked her to go back to using a dull knife she would probably laugh at me because she now knows the value of a sharp knife. I have also tested the "polished" VS. "non-polished" edge, and for 99% of her uses its always the polished edge.


I recently sharpened some large knives for a butcher that had been sharpening his own knives for a long time, when he got them back his exact words were "HOLY SH!@ I have never had em this sharp" he also liked the way they cut.

If you still don't belive in a sharp knife send it to me, I'll sharpen it for free, and then you can see for your self.
 
just as an experiment i put a 60 grit belt on and worked up a burr on the fillet knife i just made for a friend. i polished the edge up with the paper buffing wheel and its pretty wicked. it slices typing paper just as easily as newspaper. it has a toothy but polished edge.
 
So by "razor edge", are we talking about really thin edge angles (<20 degrees or so), highly polished edges or both?

Highly polished edges don't perform better depending on the material being cut and super thin edges have greater chances of edge damage/deformation depending on use. I think the opponents to "razor edges" are for the most part giving their opinion based on their own perception of what "every day use" means to them (whether they know it or not).

If we can get a razor edge and our personal every day usage doesn't cause edge deformation and the highly polished edges increases the cutting performance, then why NOT do it?
 
I have always found that a dull knife will cause a more serious wound. It may not cut you as easily or as often, but when it does the wound is more of a tear than a slice. Tears cause more damage, take longer to heal and leave worse scars. As far as which is more dangerous, that is totally dependent on the person. I know people who can do more damage to themselves with a ball bearing than they can with a knife.
 
Kaizen1 said:
So by "razor edge", are we talking about really thin edge angles (<20 degrees or so), highly polished edges or both?

Highly polished edges don't perform better depending on the material being cut and super thin edges have greater chances of edge damage/deformation depending on use. I think the opponents to "razor edges" are for the most part giving their opinion based on their own perception of what "every day use" means to them (whether they know it or not).

If we can get a razor edge and our personal every day usage doesn't cause edge deformation and the highly polished edges increases the cutting performance, then why NOT do it?
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That is the key to this ongoing debate. Sharp enough for the job at hand. I have toothy edges, semi-polished edges, and polished edges. Different edges on different knives with different designated uses.

I started sharpening knives in my grandmother's butcher shop about 40 yrs ago at the age of 8. I was taught, if it doesn't 'shave', it still needs work.

Different angles and different grits for different jobs.

I also shave with a straight razor and if you want to see 'sharp', check out a properly honed straight razor :)
 
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