Why Not Stainless?

jdm61 said:
My question is this. As most of the folks in here seem to be users of knives as opposed to collectors, why would you really care if your knife didn't stay super shiny silver? The reason that I like carbon is that I forge and it is easier to maintain....as in keep it sharp.....than stainless. When you are talking about normal steels and not uber-expensive high tech stainless stuff, I would defy you to find any readily available stainless that gets sharper than my beloved W2 does at 50-61 Rc without chipping out. Hey...if a hack like me can get a scary sharp edge on a W2 blade that is tough and stays sharp for a while, then there must be something inherently right about the stuff....lol
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I like non-stainless (in general) for a lot of the reasons already discussed. I don't care for shiny knives, I usually either patina a knife, or get it coated - then rust is a non-issue, and I have the best of both worlds!
 
Gossman Knives said:
Even though I prefer carbon steel, the one stainless I have experience with is 154CM. It's actually a stainless tool steel. Very tough. I've only made smaller knives with it but i'm sure it would do well in a larger blade. I'd feel perfectly confident with one in the field.
Scott[/
Some of my favorite knives are 154cm, just happens to be they are all BM folders.Tough as heck. Just for the record though, Ive had INFI rust(very slight though, no pitting) before my SAKS in the same knife case in a couple weeks with out attention. My Ti knives were of course just fine. All depends on the environment I guess. Some of my best chef knives are quasi-stainless as well. I like them both myself. As Mike Stewart once told me,its not about the steel its about the maker.(Im not sure those where his exact word but thats the jist of it)
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ejes said:
QB, you should be able to post the video on Photobucket for free. I have used the site many, many times for photos and once for video. Have never had an issue with them nor any spamming from them.
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Good advice, it is far easier to make fire from nothing than find an available user name on you tube. :D

Here is making sparks with a mora knife and a piece of chert. Again, I usually put a piece of char cloth on top of the flake of chert. Now that I know how to do the video thing, I may do the whole thing to flame at some point to demonstrate. This is just another advantage to carbon in my humble opinion. Peace, Chris

http://i305.photobucket.com/player....obucket.com/albums/nn230/abodude/P3190030.flv
 
As a steel snob/nerd reading this thread, I've noticed the sweeping generalizations about carbon and stainless. I think you would be hard pressed to prove that every carbon steel sharpens easier in the field or at home, gets sharper, holds an edge longer, etc. than any stainless. Of course, this is not my native forum, so if carbon steel refers to the 10xx series of steels, then that at least narrows things a little. As an example consider M2 and 12C27. I am guessing that M2 is considered a carbon steel, and 12C27 is certainly stainless, but I dont know anyone that would argue that M2 is tougher than 12C27 or that 12C27 is more difficult to sharpen than M2. Personally, just because it isnt stainless, I wouldnt consider it a carbon steel. There is a lot of in between, specifically in the tool steels.
 
Yup. I've no experience of M2 but I know D2 has a reputation [worthy or otherwise] for being one of the more tricky steels to sharpen, and that's only qualifies as stainless by a whisker.
 
Quiet Bear said:
Good advice, it is far easier to make fire from nothing than find an available user name on you tube. :D

Here is making sparks with a mora knife and a piece of chert. Again, I usually put a piece of char cloth on top of the flake of chert. Now that I know how to do the video thing, I may do the whole thing to flame at some point to demonstrate. This is just another advantage to carbon in my humble opinion. Peace, Chris

http://i305.photobucket.com/player....obucket.com/albums/nn230/abodude/P3190030.flv
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Outstanding video!! Thanks for posting that. Some of my Mora's are pretty un-polished on the spine with mill marks. I would think this only helps to get the spark. There were plenty there to catch a piece of CC.
 
I like a lot of knives in all kinds of steel. I just take care of them accordingly. I have never hadm any problem with rust. If it's prone to rust, oil it.
 
Relative to Thomas Elpel's claim that it was easier for him to start a fire with that method than using matches, I'm still gonna call BS. No matter how practiced he is at that, from the moment the head of a match explodes we have fire. He loses. I can see no way out of that unless he can achieve a detonation.
 
Quiet Bear said:
Brian, I respectfully disagree. I strike the back of my mora against a sharp rock (as you would a file) and consistently catch a spark to char cloth which I in turn blow to flame in a tinder bundle. High carbon such as 1095 is soft enough to break-off a piece of steel where stainless is not. It does rough up the spine a little, but does not damage. I have also done this with my Queen Cutlery folder in 1095 and several other high carbon knives. Cody Lundin turned me on to how do it and he has been using the same mora for over a decade with no ill effects. Here is a picture of how I hold the knife and rock. I usually put the char cloth under my thumb on top of the flake. I made an 8 sec. video (2.54 MB) using a mora and a piece of chert (not the hardest rock either) if someone knows how I can post it for free I will, or email it to you. This is a viable fire starting method, but it takes practice like anything else. Peace, Chris

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QB/Chris,

Cool! :thumbup: I'd like to re-examine this based on your conclusions! Maybe the only evidence I uncovered is that I am unable to get a spark with heat-treated steels. In other words, the only thing I really learned is that I suck! Seriously - I am not being facetious. I learn new things everyday.

However (and now I will piss off many members here), I feel the Mora knife is a throwaway that I will never rely on in an emergency survival situation. The fact that you can get a spark with a Mora blade confirms my own opinion that it's inadequate for a survival knife. :) Sounds like it'll break under survival usage.

Now, I offer this in a playful spirit of debate, not argumentatively or aggressively. And if I am wrong, I will humbly kiss anyone's buttocks who proves it wrong. I love when I am sure of something and someone proves me wrong. I don't know much, but I know I...don't know much. :D My ego is not attached to my opinions. I am only moderator here because I suggested this forum and Spark said, "Ok, you're running it!"

Oy ve! :p
 
I like simple carbon steels because its easy to sharpen on a rock or a reasonable surface and takes a keener edge. The saltwater fishing knife i use shows just a little surface rust after being left occasionally in the coolerbox and its very humid and wet here. Its seems to hold up fine. Another reason is that its cheaper ( simple carbon steel) than stainless.

as51.jpg


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Brian - no offense taken, we are all learning and you should be the one running the forum, no questions asked.

It is not just the Mora that this can be done however, but most carbon knives. Some do better than others based on finish, hardness, spine shape, etc. The mora does well because it is a bit softer, the spine is square, and the blade is thin with no guard.

In defense of the mora, it doesn't get any simplier in a knife and when it comes to bushcraft you want the simplist tools. I am by far no expert, but people like Mors Kochanski and Cody Lundin can't be all wrong. I have spent time with Cody in the field and he has used the same Mora for over 10 years and I have never seen anyone come close to wielding a knife like he does. As he and Mors say, "the more you know the less you need." Less can be less in a knife too.:D

By the way, I do not rely on this method as a primary by any stretch. Give me matches, magnesium and a ferro rod!!!
 
Cool, QB, see my sig line as stated by Watchful. We agree.

I will take a second look at this. Time to buy a Mora and test it out.

I am grateful I have you here on the forum to learn from!

Peace,

~B.
 
Brian Jones said:
sdt11670, I suggest you try it for yourself and then decide. I think you'll find that this is a myth. If he's using old soft steels, perhaps with some effort he might get something. And, if he wore that much off his blade, it's probably due to so many unsuccessful attempts. Plus, why would anyone in their right mind do that to their primary tool?

Best lesson I can offer is this: you must personally verify ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you read about survival by practicing it, before accepting or trusting the information. Your life may depend on it.

That includes elpel's writing, my posts, and everything in between and around them.
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I have been using flint and steel kits (not very good myself) for several years and have been hunting with flintlocks for 20 years and the secret to making sparks is the steel has to be hard not soft otherwise the steel will deform rather than scrape off red hot when struck hard on the flint. Files are much harder than any knife blade and that is why they work better than knife spines. But it doesn't matter whether your using a knife a steel or a flintlock the key to more sparks is hard steel.
 
Start letting a guy call himself a "Moderator" and he thinks he knows it all.:barf:

:D;):eek::p
 
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