Why Should I learn ........?

It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
- Robert Goddard (1882-1945)
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I read this forum because people with way more experience than I may ever have are so willing to share their hard won knowledge.
The metallurgists, the top drawer makers, the machinists, those willing to do the work to make WIPs and tutorials...
Once again THANK YOU for taking the time!
Andy
 
The scientific basis for the advice here is the reason I signed up on this site instead of many others. For anyone who says science can be disproven, I suggest they don't understand what science really is. Science is a series of hypothesis that are tested, and the results of the tests (research) are documented, submitted for peer review, then published. Nothing is proven, the hypothesis is either supported or not supported, based on the sophistication of the measurements. When new tools allow more sophisticated measurement, the hypothesis is revisited, and retested if needed.
 
Willie71 said:
The scientific basis for the advice here is the reason I signed up on this site instead of many others. For anyone who says science can be disproven, I suggest they don't understand what science really is. Science is a series of hypothesis that are tested, and the results of the tests (research) are documented, submitted for peer review, then published. Nothing is proven, the hypothesis is either supported or not supported, based on the sophistication of the measurements. When new tools allow more sophisticated measurement, the hypothesis is revisited, and retested if needed.
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Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but they are not entitled to their own FACTS :)
 
tryppyr said:
I often get annoyed when people talk about science (any science) as if it is absolute and unchanging. Science is anything but that.
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Greg, that's exactly my point. No one is here is saying that science as we understand it now is immutable - quite the opposite. But that doesn't mean we get to make up our own rules as we go along.

Far more often than not, the people stuck in "their own box" aren't bringing new data to light and submitting it for peer review, they're relying on old wive's tales, outdated disproven texts and "well, somebody told me this and he's famous, so it must be true". They often utterly refuse to examine their methods or have them corroborated by other sources. When pressed, they generally start muttering about secrets and magic. Completely the opposite of science.

On the other hand, if by "stuck in a box" we mean for instance, relying solely on industry standards for heat-treating D2, well no, that's not very scientific either. Industry doesn't make a lot of hunting knives out of D2; their needs are quite different from ours, so of course it makes sense to tweak times and temperatures. Preferably in an orderly fashion, so we can keep track of what we're changing. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think that's what Stacy means when he talks about "knowing the boundaries of the box".
 
There is a nice parallel in my field. I am a therapist, and there are general rules that most therapies follow. With specific populations, there are many exceptions to the general rules, but those have been tested and compared to other methods to become recommended. I think this is true with blade making. There are specific heat treat methods that are employed because of the shape of the material, and the specific use.
 
james terrio said:
But that doesn't mean we get to make up our own rules as we go along.
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I completely agree. By the same token, I do see some folks here who seem to act as if every principle of metallurgy and knifemaking has been discovered and documented, and will never change. When we cross the line from science to dogma it becomes easier to attack others for doing something different and harder to see the value of the different approaches.

Often it's the people who are least involved in the scientific method that most often describe their dogma as science. I'm not saying that is true on this forum, but I am saying when someone starts acting as if their science is unassailable I dial up my scrutiny.
 
The confusion that come up in the word "SCIENCE" is that it applies to many things. The science of medicine changes every week. The science of knifemaking metallurgy , however, is based on PHYSICS. Physics isn't quite the same as far as what can and can't be changed. The interaction of matter and energy is a pretty well set system. People who try to bend or break the laws of physics are not going to get far.

When someone says that grinding edge up is better, and another says edge down works better for them....both can be right.
But, when one says that steel becomes non-magnetic at 1650F and another says it happens at 1350F, ...... only one is right.
 
Even physics is not staid and unchanging. There's nothing different or special about physics.
 
I don't really understand the mentality behind not wanting to learn new things. I mean, I'm trying to learn the metallurgy, and eventually when I have the space, will start learning forging. But the reason I took up knifemaking, and stayed with it, is it seems to have a lifetime's worth of stuff to learn, and I get bored with things pretty fast when I feel that I've gotten a reasonable level of mastery. There's always something new to learn though.
 
There seems to be three schools of thought around here. Some work within normal ranges of acceptable practices in heat treating steel. Some that make stuff up as they go and these are the ones that seem more believable to somebody who is trying to belong or conect to a certain maker or hero to them. And others who seem to know a lot of techincal stuff way over my head all the terms and language but still send there stuff out. I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat.
 
Patrice Lemée;12204630 said:
How come now I feel like making the my own crazy boxes with insane parameters? I don't think I am right in the head I tell you. :o ;)
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Don't blame me for your weird ideas! I'm trying as hard as I can to be reasonable.
 
This kind of reminds me of something the grand master of one of the martial arts I study says all the time... to paraphrase "Forget the Techniques! If you only memorize techniques your Budo will never be alive!" Of course he's not talking to beginners like me... He's talking to the people who have long since mastered the techniques. Kinda like most of the advice given here... "start with the basics, after you have mastered them, start thinking about doing something different... maybe..."
 
I have worked with steel most of my adult life. But, I never really understood steel until I started making knives and then learning metallurgy. It has been a wonderful experience and interestedly enough has helped me in my professional life as well. There are so many misconceptions out there. Thanks to those of you who have continued my education. One of the best things I did was get, read and study the text "Metallurgy Fundamentals". Really made it easy to understand and tons of good solid info. After learning what was in that text I have been able to converse with engineers on some of the equipment and processes involved in the oil business and not only are they amazed by what I know (and sometimes they don't) but, in some ways it has validated me and my opinions and help pave the way when I needed to request them to sign off on something I wanted to build or modify.
 
Quote Originally Posted by james terrio
"I do have an instinctual mistrust of people who make up their own box and refuse to explain their parameters."

Don't fret, word is there is a soon to be published book/paper from a noted scientist on that science that will explain all.
 
Patrice Lemée;12204821 said:
Not blaming you James, more like thanking you. Weird is good, I like weird.;)
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:)

bladsmth said:
Don't fret, word is there is a soon to be published book/paper from a noted scientist on that science that will explain all.
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I think I know who you're talking about, and I can hardly wait.
 
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