Why so much money?

[cchu518]

I don't think anyone is being hard on "knife nuts", but I think the whole purpose of this thread is that "knife nuts" are over paying for their knifes.. That is, for example, they're paying $60 for something that cost $5 to make.

The stuff that is made in the USA I'm OK with paying extra for. It creates an industry and jobs for Americans! Cost of living and wages are higher here so paying extra is fair, no?

 

[Pnwknifeguy]

I feel like sometimes you have to pay 10 times the price to get something that is maybe only 3 times as good.

 

[ibute21]

I feel like sometimes you have to pay 10 times the price to get something that is maybe only 3 times as good.

Diminishing returns.

 

[Daddyo16]

I don't think anyone is being hard on "knife nuts", but I think the whole purpose of this thread is that "knife nuts" are over paying for their knifes.. That is, for example, they're paying $60 for something that cost $5 to make.

You must be in the knife business to know what manufacturers' costs are.

 

[upnorth]

People will pay for a tool that meets their needs\desires. I could care less if Joe buys a high end expensive custom knife, simply to admire for its aesthetics. I am fortunate in that my needs\desires for an outdoor cutting tool are easily met with common factory knives. I have seen it inferred several times that average factory knife buyers are envious or covetous of high end knives, and jealous of their owners. I could care less myself. If you want high end and can afford it, I hope that it brings you pleasure. There are various facets to knife use\collecting so there is room for everyone. Just because I have zero interest in another fellows knife views does not mean that I feel animosity toward him or her. It is just a different mind set or view. Knives will sell for whatever people are willing to pay for them. If you feel that knives today are expensive, you have many obvious options to pursue. Personally I find that my outdoor cutting tool choices are becoming generally smaller, simpler and more basic over time, as opposed to more expensive and high end.

 

[leghog]

People will pay for a tool that meets their needs\desires. I could care less if Joe buys a high end expensive custom knife, simply to admire for its aesthetics. I am fortunate in that my needs\desires for an outdoor cutting tool are easily met with common factory knives. I have seen it inferred several times that average factory knife buyers are envious or covetous of high end knives, and jealous of their owners. I could care less myself. If you want high end and can afford it, I hope that it brings you pleasure. There are various facets to knife use\collecting so there is room for everyone. Just because I have zero interest in another fellows knife views does not mean that I feel animosity toward him or her. It is just a different mind set or view. Knives will sell for whatever people are willing to pay for them. If you feel that knives today are expensive, you have many obvious options to pursue. Personally I find that my outdoor cutting tool choices are becoming generally smaller, simpler and more basic over time, as opposed to more expensive and high end.

Bingo!

My wife and I are fortunate to have reached a station in life when/where we can buy most anything we might want even after paying college tuition and board fort four. Just so happens what interests me in knives are USA factory made slip joints no longer in production. It's just a great bonus that so many of those can be found so inexpensively.

I, too, have seen others say or imply those so interested in such knives must be unable to afford high end knives and/or are jealous of those who buy them. Just makes me laugh. The first person I pay is my future. Matters not one bit what you own, if you aren't setting yourself up for current financial stability, long term financial security, and a time you can retire comfortably.

 

[uofaengr]

There are tradeoffs to everything you buy, doesn't matter what the hobby is. People that spend thousands of dollars on cars, boats, clothes, shoes, watches, etc are IMO much more likely to flaunt that stuff than a guy who appreciates a finely crafted tool i.e. a $300+ knife. Knives are not one of those things that's relatively accepted in mainstream society. Doesn't matter if you're a self-reliant person or not that likes to have a good tool on your person. I know plenty of folks who spend thousands on guns and ammo and carry a $20 Walmart knife that is according to them "the best".

People ooh and ahh over how many expensive cars, jewelry, and watches Lebron James has, but if the guy showed his collection of custom solid gold and platinum, diamond encrusted, handmade knives especially if he carried them, the media would flip. So knives are one of those things that the owner, usually lonesome by himself has to appreciate, and there is no point in flaunting it to people who either find knives offensive or just don't understand/comprehend. He's lucky if he has at least one friend or spouse that enjoys and understands the hobby just as much rather than questioning his purchases.

A knife is flat out not a status symbol because no one except you or us know the difference between your $5K William Henry you spread your caviar with and an Opinel except that one is prettier. IMO the most obvious status symbol is a fancy car because that's what everyone sees on a daily basis. Not everyone sees your house. There are plenty of people who can't afford to buy a home so they live in a cheap apartment and lease a BMW. At least in my neck of the woods. Not a knock on anyone who does that, but you get a sense of people's priorities when you see that, and they usually have the clothes and jewelry to match. And I'm speaking in terms of this part of the country where a nice home is very affordable unlike the West Coast and Northeast...I've seen House Hunters lol.

Some people spend their expendable income on depreciable assets. Some people spend their expendable income on appreciable assets. One guy may decide to dump all his money into a boat...thousands upon thousands of dollars. What's the common saying...boats are money pits? I grew up around water and find this to be mostly true. One guy may decide to spend a few hundred on a highly crafted knife that will provide him decades of use, possibly refurbished by the manufacturer several times throughout its life, and either sold for several times what he originally paid for the knife a couple decades ago as it's probably considered a collector item by now, or passes it down to be appreciated by the next generation where value increases even more as the years pass by. One can argue that a knife is not a true appreciable asset, but what does a BG-42 Regular Sebenza go for these days? What do you think it will go for 10 years from now? What about a first gen XM-18?

On the other hand, some people spend all of their expendable income on things that hold no tangible value such as spending thousands to sit on a beach on the other side of the world sipping the same alcohol that can be had here. A memory isn't tangible although those things are nice to experience every now and then.

It's all relative. If this were a Star Wars forum, then there would be threads about "why do people pay so much for this figurine over that figurine?"

Just be glad you didn't tie up all your cash in baseball cards 20 years ago.

 

[Daddyo16]

Just be glad you didn't tie up all your cash in baseball cards 20 years ago.

Oops!

 

[Sonnydaze]

But, you can shoot a knife and you really can't cut with a Glock.

Cute, but you CAN cut to the chase, more effectively...at distance... with a Glock if it comes to that...

But I do see his point. I think we're talking here about the miracles of mass production, which lessens the time involved and cost to produce a Glock. The initial cost of materials is likely not that much to account for much.
My Sebbies cost as much as a nice Glock, although both will last a lifetime.

 

[xICEMANx]

I'm actually fine with spending money. What I don't like is if I'm paying for inflated value. If price = quality I'm fine with that. But if price is >>>> quality then it does irritate me. But it is America.

The inflation and the practice of erasing numbers from the cost of knives on this forum is making it difficult for me get a good gauge on prices for blades. it's almost like we're back in the middle ages and we have to haggle for prices so one person could end up paying far more than the other guy.

Hope I didn't come off rude, just my second day on this forum and stating what I see.

I am in the market for a knife and man it is going to take a long time to decide

I totally get where you are coming from. My first decent knife was a $35 Kershaw Needs Work. Still have it. I've owned customs up to $600, high end production, mid techs, budget blades ,etc. I find my "sweet spot" is the under $300 range. Anything over that to ME isn't worth it really. Honestly how many of us need m390 steel for typical EDC tasks? No one does really. Aus8a would work just fine. It comes down to what people like and what they are willing to spend. I have no qualm with anyone spending $1k on a custom, no. Would I? Hell no. I also have one income and a family of 5 to support. Some companies offer better value(kershaw, Boker, Spyderco) compared to others in the same price range(benchmade, microtech). Hence you see so many people so loyal to one brand. For me it started with Kershaw/ZT and most of the knives I own are there brand. Doesn't mean I don't love my Para 2 or Benchmade 531. I'm rambling now.

 

[Quiet]

There are tradeoffs to everything you buy, doesn't matter what the hobby is. People that spend thousands of dollars on cars, boats, clothes, shoes, watches, etc are IMO much more likely to flaunt that stuff than a guy who appreciates a finely crafted tool i.e. a $300+ knife. Knives are not one of those things that's relatively accepted in mainstream society. Doesn't matter if you're a self-reliant person or not that likes to have a good tool on your person. I know plenty of folks who spend thousands on guns and ammo and carry a $20 Walmart knife that is according to them "the best".

People ooh and ahh over how many expensive cars, jewelry, and watches Lebron James has, but if the guy showed his collection of custom solid gold and platinum, diamond encrusted, handmade knives especially if he carried them, the media would flip. So knives are one of those things that the owner, usually lonesome by himself has to appreciate, and there is no point in flaunting it to people who either find knives offensive or just don't understand/comprehend. He's lucky if he has at least one friend or spouse that enjoys and understands the hobby just as much rather than questioning his purchases.

A knife is flat out not a status symbol because no one except you or us know the difference between your $5K William Henry you spread your caviar with and an Opinel except that one is prettier. IMO the most obvious status symbol is a fancy car because that's what everyone sees on a daily basis. Not everyone sees your house. There are plenty of people who can't afford to buy a home so they live in a cheap apartment and lease a BMW. At least in my neck of the woods. Not a knock on anyone who does that, but you get a sense of people's priorities when you see that, and they usually have the clothes and jewelry to match. And I'm speaking in terms of this part of the country where a nice home is very affordable unlike the West Coast and Northeast...I've seen House Hunters lol.

Some people spend their expendable income on depreciable assets. Some people spend their expendable income on appreciable assets. One guy may decide to dump all his money into a boat...thousands upon thousands of dollars. What's the common saying...boats are money pits? I grew up around water and find this to be mostly true. One guy may decide to spend a few hundred on a highly crafted knife that will provide him decades of use, possibly refurbished by the manufacturer several times throughout its life, and either sold for several times what he originally paid for the knife a couple decades ago as it's probably considered a collector item by now, or passes it down to be appreciated by the next generation where value increases even more as the years pass by. One can argue that a knife is not a true appreciable asset, but what does a BG-42 Regular Sebenza go for these days? What do you think it will go for 10 years from now? What about a first gen XM-18?

On the other hand, some people spend all of their expendable income on things that hold no tangible value such as spending thousands to sit on a beach on the other side of the world sipping the same alcohol that can be had here. A memory isn't tangible although those things are nice to experience every now and then.

It's all relative. If this were a Star Wars forum, then there would be threads about "why do people pay so much for this figurine over that figurine?"

Just be glad you didn't tie up all your cash in baseball cards 20 years ago.

The irony in the bolded statement is amusing, to say the least. The rest is also poorly thought out, and is just a longwinded version of "People who spend money on OTHER things are doing it for attention, but people who spend money on knives are cool, because knives are tools! There's totally a big difference!"

No, not really.

Additionally, this statement: "A knife is flat out not a status symbol because no one except you or us know the difference" is also incorrect. Or at least, is poor logic, because that statement can also be applied to pretty much every other single thing you listed off. Clothes? High end designer clothing often does not look like anything special. I've seen $300 black tee-shirts that a normal person could not tell apart from a $10 tee-shirt from Target. Cars? Park a base model Camaro next to the new Z/28, and ask a non-car person which is the one that costs $25k, and which one costs $80+. Watches? Really? The number of people who aren't watch people is staggering, in this day and age when your laptop, tablet, and phone all have clocks on them. Most people under 30 I know don't even wear a watch. Shoes? Same thing. One pair ran you $50 at Rack Room. This other pair is a brand new pair of Cole Hahns which run $400. Most people can't tell the difference.

So, I'll say it again. At the end of the day,, how about we just stop trying to judge other people and the reasons why they spend their money on what they spend it on. Knife people are no better. There is no valid, logical argument that you can make for knife people somehow being different, or better than people who spend money on expensive items that you personally don't think are important.

 

[uofaengr]

I'm not really understanding the irony you're trying to find in my post when I'm basically agreeing with your numbered points (1) and (2) on the previous page. People who appreciate fine craftsmanship and quality will pay for it, if they can afford it. I like nice things just as you like nice things, and there's nothing wrong with that. I prefer good beer over Natty Light and a filet over chopped steak. Enjoying the finer things in life, when we can, makes life a little better.

Let's just set one thing straight. People who buy nice things are not necessarily snobs. But let's face it, some people do, and it's ok! It's ok! That's fine! That's why a super expensive watch I think can be viewed as a status symbol more so than a knife...whether it was purchased with the intent of being a status symbol or not. In the digital age watches are almost irrelevant, so why does someone need a Rolex to tell time when a Timex does just as well, or just as well as their phone? Because people recognize Rolexes. Doesn't matter what corner of the country you're from, when you see Rolex, you know it's expensive. Some people just like and appreciate nice things and it has nothing to do with status...they may be willing to pay thousands of dollars for the utmost in quality and that's ok. On the other hand, only a small subset of the population have even heard of Todd Bodega.

So how is "a knife is not a status symbol" incorrect? If I have a Rolex on my wrist and I pull out a $1000 Shirogorov to cut my steak, Joe Blow at the next table is going to think I'm a weird rich dude using some big ass knife to cut my food. If he's a knife nut, he knows what it is, else he's assumed my status due to the Rolex on my wrist. Joe Blow does not know the difference in the knife. Hell, the average guy who carries a knife doesn't know a difference. We keep the knives in our pockets 99% of the time unless we're playing with or using them at home. We're not waving them around saying, "look at me with all my Sebenzas, I'm better than you". So I'll stand firm that people who solely buy things to impress others are going to lean toward things such as cars, clothes, watches, etc...not knives. Because a whole bunch more people recognize everyday name brand items that are synonymous with modern culture. Igor Shirogorov is not one of those names. When I bought my first Sebenza, I didn't feel like I had "made it" or that "I'd arrived". It just meant I had a bunch of cash tied up in many other knives that I wasn't satisfied with and wanted to see what the next step was like...see what the hype was. No one else in my circle cares except my friend who also has a couple Sebenzas and is a normal, middle-class American that drives an old truck just like I do. But I'm sure there's a guy out there who carries his ladder Damascus Mnandi everyday and takes every chance to tell everyone how much it was.

So yes, there are tradeoffs in everything. I buy a $125 knife, but I don't get the fit and finish or tolerances of the $400 knife. The $400 knife may not have as good steel as the $125 knife plus I have less cash for other knives. The cheaper knife may be more flashy and colorful. The more expensive may be more plain and boring and ugly. So there's no knock on what people choose to spend their money on, but those people don't need to be asking me I paid WHAT for WHAT when I can just as easily say you blew yours on THAT? We're not better than anyone, but that's why we have this thing called free will so we can spend our cash on what we want. It's not our place to judge others on what they buy, but we all do it anyway.

 

[Czechmate]

Spyderco Gayle bradley's go for right around the $100 mark on the exchange here, I scooped up one for $120 all in and it's perfection with M4 steel...

Bought a LNIB benchmade 581 for $115 shipped...

I could go on but who's complaining?

 

[uofaengr]

Spyderco Gayle bradley's go for right around the $100 mark on the exchange here, I scooped up one for $120 all in and it's perfection with M4 steel...

Bought a LNIB benchmade 581 for $115 shipped...

I could go on but who's complaining?

The GB is amazing.

 

[Quiet]

I'm not really understanding the irony you're trying to find in my post when I'm basically agreeing with your numbered points (1) and (2) on the previous page. People who appreciate fine craftsmanship and quality will pay for it, if they can afford it. I like nice things just as you like nice things, and there's nothing wrong with that. I prefer good beer over Natty Light and a filet over chopped steak. Enjoying the finer things in life, when we can, makes life a little better.

Your statement of "People that spend thousands of dollars on cars, boats, clothes, shoes, watches, etc are IMO much more likely to flaunt that stuff than a guy who appreciates a finely crafted tool i.e. a $300+ knife." is what I find ironic. We're on a knife board where people post up pictures of super expensive knives all day long. One definition of that could be flaunting, no? Of course, many of the guys doing it are great guys, and I know they aren't, but come on. The idea that people who buy this expensive item "are much more likely to flaunt it" than this OTHER group of people who buy this other expensive item (but OMG it's a tool!), doesn't compute logically.

Let's just set one thing straight. People who buy nice things are not necessarily snobs. But let's face it, some people do, and it's ok! It's ok! That's fine! That's why a super expensive watch I think can be viewed as a status symbol more so than a knife...whether it was purchased with the intent of being a status symbol or not. In the digital age watches are almost irrelevant, so why does someone need a Rolex to tell time when a Timex does just as well, or just as well as their phone? Because people recognize Rolexes. Doesn't matter what corner of the country you're from, when you see Rolex, you know it's expensive. Some people just like and appreciate nice things and it has nothing to do with status...they may be willing to pay thousands of dollars for the utmost in quality and that's ok. On the other hand, only a small subset of the population have even heard of Todd Bodega.

You are missing the point on watches, sorry man. Visit a watch forum sometime. You'll be quite surprised at what you see. Amazingly, oddly, you'll see people discussing expensive watches, discussing the craftsmanship, the quality, and so on. They'll also be posting pictures of expensive watches for the appreciation of other watch enthusiasts. That sure does sound familiar, no? Almost (gasp!) like what goes on here, at BF!! That's what I'm getting at. Why do you keep trying to slam people who spend money on things as being people who just want to own something for status? It's like it's just not occurring to you that MANY people who buy fine watches do so for the appreciation of them. Also, you keep trying to compare knife makers and watch makers. I am interested in watches. I could list out several names right now, of watchmakers whose products command tens of thousands of dollars. Names that no one who isn't into watches would know. Tod Bodega? Who's Franck Muller? Can you tell me without a Google search? It'd be the same logic you're using here.

So how is "a knife is not a status symbol" incorrect? If I have a Rolex on my wrist and I pull out a $1000 Shirogorov to cut my steak, Joe Blow at the next table is going to think I'm a weird rich dude using some big ass knife to cut my food. If he's a knife nut, he knows what it is, else he's assumed my status due to the Rolex on my wrist. Joe Blow does not know the difference in the knife.

So, wait. "Joe Blow" is going to automatically know the watch you're wearing is a Rolex? You DO know that Rolex makes plenty of watches that aren't big and made of gold, correct? I mean, right? So, it's expected that Joe Blow is supposed to have a running mental inventory of aaaaalllll the nice watches out there, and will assign you some social status based on your watch, and yet not know anything about your knife? I see. That's logical. Everyone can somehow recognize a Rolex, any Rolex. Good to know.

Hell, the average guy who carries a knife doesn't know a difference. We keep the knives in our pockets 99% of the time unless we're playing with or using them at home. We're not waving them around saying, "look at me with all my Sebenzas, I'm better than you". So I'll stand firm that people who solely buy things to impress others are going to lean toward things such as cars, clothes, watches, etc...not knives.

And you're still wrong. And worse, at this point, I'm starting to understand that you don't even recognize your bias. "I think spending a lot of money on cars, clothes, watches, etc. is dumb, so therefore, people who DON'T think it's dumb, are doing it mainly for social status!" That's what you sound like right now.

Because a whole bunch more people recognize everyday name brand items that are synonymous with modern culture. Igor Shirogorov is not one of those names. When I bought my first Sebenza, I didn't feel like I had "made it" or that "I'd arrived". It just meant I had a bunch of cash tied up in many other knives that I wasn't satisfied with and wanted to see what the next step was like...see what the hype was. No one else in my circle cares except my friend who also has a couple Sebenzas and is a normal, middle-class American that drives an old truck just like I do. But I'm sure there's a guy out there who carries his ladder Damascus Mnandi everyday and takes every chance to tell everyone how much it was.

You know what? No else in your circle would care or recognize if you had a fantastically expensive watch on either.

So yes, there are tradeoffs in everything. I buy a $125 knife, but I don't get the fit and finish or tolerances of the $400 knife. The $400 knife may not have as good steel as the $125 knife plus I have less cash for other knives. The cheaper knife may be more flashy and colorful. The more expensive may be more plain and boring and ugly. So there's no knock on what people choose to spend their money on, but those people don't need to be asking me I paid WHAT for WHAT when I can just as easily say you blew yours on THAT? We're not better than anyone, but that's why we have this thing called free will so we can spend our cash on what we want. It's not our place to judge others on what they buy, but we all do it anyway.

You need to move past your tremendous personal bias, and realize that your logic is terribly poor, and it makes you look like someone who's jealous of others using their discretionary income on things that you'd most likely like to have but can't afford because you put all of your discretionary income into something different. My point remains. You're essentially stating "I buy expensive knives, but that's ok because knives are tools! So it's ok!" and then saying "Look at those fools, buying clothes, cars, watches, and stuff! They're just doing it to display status!". Really? There's no possibility for you that those people who buy expensive watches, clothes, shoes, cars, care about quality or fine craftsmanship? It's clearly all just "LOOK AT ME!" and "LOOK! STATUS!" for you? Not to mention, it could be argued that most people would get FAR more use out of things like clothes, cars, shoes, and watches every day than they would knives. I know I sure do.

Whel, you're welcome to your opinion, as long as you understand that it reveals a tremendous bias based on poor logic. As I've already pointed out, watches, shoes, wines, pretty much any luxury good tends to be distinguishable only to those who are interested in those items. Cars are about the only thing where your argument might hold some type of water because most expensive cars look it. Everything else, nope. Your views just strike me as the views of a young person who hasn't really come into the income level that allows you to explore more than one interest.

 

[Quiet]

You know, I almost feel like I'm back on the Mustang boards talking to meatheads who think that people who buy Porsches, Ferraris, BMW M3s, Corvettes, and other fine sports cars are all losers who only bought those cars just to show off their money, and that it couldn't possibly be because those people are also automotive enthusiasts who enjoy quality engineering and a high level of performance. "Well duh, if they enjoyed that, they'da bought a MUSTANG! BEAST MODE, BRUH!"

 

[uofaengr]

There's no point.

 

[DShiflet]

So how is "a knife is not a status symbol" incorrect? If I have a Rolex on my wrist and I pull out a $1000 Shirogorov to cut my steak, Joe Blow at the next table is going to think I'm a weird rich dude using some big ass knife to cut my food.

No he's not-most people wouldn't be able ID a Rolex by sight anymore than they would the Shigorov, assuming they even NOTICED the watch which many of them would not.

 

[uofaengr]

Just assuming he has eyes good enough to see the logo on the face. Assuming it was a perfect scenario where the guy is purposely looking at you and examining you closely. My addition to the discussion is Swiss cheese now. I'm also poor and on welfare and Obama bought me a phone and Sebenza.

 

[Quiet]

Uofaengr, here's a question for you. If I was wearing one of the following three watches, would you be able to tell me which of the three I was wearing sitting a table or two away?

Here's a Rolex Sea-Dweller:

Here's an Omega Seamaster and the Invicta lookalike model that I've seen before online for under $100:

These three watches all have different price-points. So, what inference as to my social or financial status are you able to make from several feet away (far enough away that the logo on the watch and other small differing details is indiscernible)? The fact is, you have no clue. Thusly, any assumption you make is almost certainly going to be wrong. I may be wearing the Rolex. I may be wearing the Invicta. Maybe I just like the simple clean design. Maybe I admire Rolex's craftsmanship. Maybe I wear the Invicta model because I can't afford the Rolex model. You have ZERO idea.

I surmise that your anti-luxury-goods-people rants above were more aimed at people wearing something like this:

Even then, you're still wrong. Who cares why the guy's wearing a gold watch. Maybe he likes it. I can guarantee that that Rolex will hold its value better than most of the knives bought and sold on this board, so what's your point? Oh, right, I already know your point: "Spending big cash on knives is awesome because I think knives are awesome! Spending big cash on other luxury items is stupid because I think spending money on luxury goods that aren't knives is stupid!"

Ah, ok. Good deal. Glad we could clear that up.