Why tactical knives?

TAH

TAH

Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
6,135
The tactical knife trend has been very popular for quite sometime now. It seems like that's all I see in every knife magazine and they are very popular to talk about here at Bladeforums.com. I have never been very interested in them so I was wondering why so many knife enthusiasts like them so much? If you're not with a law enforcement agency or the military, what's the attraction? I just don't want to miss the boat.
 
I used to really like the tactical look. Thought they looked cool. There are still some tactical knives that I think are incredible, but the black G-10 and radical blade designs don't excite me at all.

The new tactical fixed blades from smiths like Jerry Fisk and Terry Primos may well become a new favorite of mine. This is the one from Terry Primos.
 
I think they are popular since most of them have very "utilitarian" applications. There seems to be as well a trend toward the somewhat smaller, 3" blade "tactical" knife, either folder or fixed. These are easy to carry and have many general uses.

I agree that the pure tactical side of these knives seem a bit overblown at times. Even with LEOs and military people, a knife is almost always a back-up tool. Very rarely the primary line of defense.

So, "tactical" knives are just plain fun and seem to be growing more fancy and user-friendly.

Just my $.02 :)

BTW, Keith--great looking Primos!!:cool:
 
I was first drawn to make tactical knives, which are now about 90% of my business, because that was what sold 12 months a year. Hunting knives are seasonal, camping knives are as well, and I don't make folders so it was an easy choice.

Once drawn into that world though, I found that there was an added dimension to tacticals that made them more interesting than other knives. They must be prepared to meet challenges that other knives never experience. Most knives just have to cut. Some have to cut and chop. Tactical knives have to cut, chop, stab, pry, parry and sometimes even be asked to pass the old concrete chopping test, while remaining visually appealing and highly maneuverable. Add to that the concern that some guy may actually have to use one in a serious real life confrontation, and you have a knife that is uniquely challenging to design and build. Even though very few will ever be asked to perform in its assigned role, all who buy them do so with the firm expectation that the knife be capable of such.

I agree though they don't need to be basic black or butt ugly. In fact I could make a serious argument that in a daylight confrontations, a mirror polished blade offers some tactical advantages. And there are many martial artists who much prefer wood as a handle material.
 
I really started to get into knives because of the tactical look. I still enjoy tactical knives, although the black blade and G10 doesnt really do it for me either. I now prefer wood and polished blades, but the application that I use them for are the same. I agree with Jerry Hossom cmpletely, in that I would like a knife that would be capable of doing what would be needed if faced with the occassion that could possibly arise. So I will stay with tactical knives with a not so tactical look.
 
You know Jerry, for some reason I have never thought of your knives as tactical knives, just beautiful, tough knives that I would love to own. Now that you mention it, I guess they are tactical.
 
I think tactical knives are so popular because people dont have to baby them. They can take them out and beat the heck out of them, whereas the fancy stuff shows the wear a lot more easily.
 
"Tactical?" How is a good looking knife not a "tactical" knife? Wasn't a Michael Price dagger a rather tactical knife in 19th century California? Is a Loveless Big Bear not a tactical knife? Or a Moran Bowie?

A knife doesn't need to be ugly to be tactical. It needs to be versatile and performance oriented. Simply making it black or OD green won't satisfy those criteria. Nor will putting any combination of spec/op/tac/combat/rambo/ninja in the name.

Why certain uneducated knife buyers don't realize this is beyond me.
 
When I first joined this Forum I believe that James Mattis was promoting the idea of calling them Sport Utility Knives instead of Tactical.

He argued as Jerry and others have stated very eloquently that the reason these knives are so popular is that they are designed and built to be small enough to always have with you and versatile enough to handle a wide variety of difficult tasks.

PS
It has been too long since we lost James and I hope that I did not spell his name incorrectly.
 
Tactical knives (much like custom knives) has become a category or marketing term as opposed to a knife that is literally a "tactical" knife.

In the Military the word "tactical" refers to a type of planning where the "rubber meets the road", which is where most of these knives would in theory be used.

So thehe term tactical is based more on their "look" and materials used. Then perhaps what their final purpose actually is.

Many makers have tried to jump on the band wagon and claim their knives are "tactical knives". Tactical knives do not have wood handles, nor do they have mirror finished blades. Wood handles and mirror blades can be found on using knives (Hunters, Skinners, Bowies) and even in the presentation category.

Tactical knvies have had a huge level of popularity for the last 7 years. I would go so far as to say they are responsible for the majority of knife sales over that same time frame.

They brought custom knives out of a downward spiral that was becoming a trend in the early 90's. Predominately, these knives were tactical folders. However, in the last 18 months tactical fixed blades are starting to gain in popularity (again)as well. I have to disagree with Knifenerd on the trend being to smaller fixed blades. Neck type knives have taken a big dip in popularity and today BIGGER is BETTER! However, folders were headed smaller for a while and now that seems to be turning bigger again.

They gained in popularity due in large part to their affordability and quality. Coupled with these knives and their makers took over the role of the innovators when it came to new materials being used as well as new locks and opening mechanisms.

Makers like Bob Terzuola, Pat Crawford,Kit Carson,Walter Brend, Jimmy Lile, Jim Hammond, Butch Vallotton, Phil Hartsfield, Bill Luckett, Bob Lum and Gil Hibben started it.

Then Allen Elishewitz, Ernie Emerson, RJ Martin, Greg Lightfoot, Rob Simonich, Ken Onion, David Broadwell, Larry Chew, James Piorek, Brian Tighe and Darrel Ralph.

Today we see the next generation starting to emerge. Larry Davidson, Mike Snody, Brad Duncan, Trace Rinaldi, Tom Mayo (he makes some really nice fighters as well), Jerry Hossom, Ryan Wilson and Steve Ryan to name a few.

I know there are makers I missed, it was not intentional.

Jerry, as a martial artist, I can tell you that no matter what the weapon you will drop it numerous times while learning how to use it.
So I am curious as to why someone would want a knife handled in a material that has a good chance of breaking or cracking during training? Also, I understand what you are saying about the "mirror" blade in sunlight. However, most "real world" knife fights don't last long enough for you to maneuver your opponent and your blade in order utilize the sun to your advantage. If your that good, it's best to employ a trap or block and elminate the problem.

Tactical knives are here to stay. There are paramters that should be adheared to (after all you don't put micarta on a presentation knife). This does not mean that makers and collectors won't make and buy what they like.

Tactical knives have that base appeal to those who buy them. Many have the newest innovations, latest materials, made by some of the custom knife super stars of today, they are affordable and best of all can be used! Really used!

Keith, Jerry does in fact make a tactical type knife, called the Military, as does Joe Flourny. The only problem is the leather sheath. If you are on Jump Status or in the 101st, you cannot have a leather sheath. It may be that way in most infantry units now as well. To many guys were jumping out of planes and rapelling out of helicopters only to hit the ground, roll and and get stabbed by their own knives. But Kenny Rowe who makes a lot of leather sheaths for the ABS guys, can line you sheath with Kydex upon request.

Also, rumor has it that a custom knife entreprenur located in the South East has put together a project with 5 ABS Master Smiths to make a very limited edition group of Tactical Knives. Utilizing Stock Removal techniques, stainless steel guards, black micarta, kydex lined coruda nylon sheaths, and S30V steel.

So TAH, if you like Tacticals then buy some (note the web site address below) :D. You haven't missed the boat yet.
 
Again, if you're not in the military or law enforcement circle and you use a knife for normal civilian activities, why do you need a knife that is so mean looking and indestructible? What do you guys use them for? As far as appearance, most of them look so "soldier of fortune" that if they were seen in public, I think they would send the wrong message about the user. My hobbies are hunting, fishing, and backpacking. For 13 years, I have carried a George Herron 4 1/2" stag hunter which has a very non-threatening look and is all the knife I would ever need. So what is the real attraction....performance or appearance?
 
Les, some of my customers are pretty fair martial artists also. James Keating and Laci Szabo for example insist on wooden handles. The mirror polish is not necessarily for its capacity to reflect sunlight, although sudden flashes of any light cause the eye a moment of confusion. The principal advantage of a mirror finish in a tactical situation as I see it is that when relecting darker objects it almost disappears and is very difficult to follow. The rapid change from dark to flash to dark to neutral or whatever is the tactical advantage. A perfect mirror reflects its environment which in motion is always changing.

Most all if my tactical knives are sheathed in heavy duty COncealex, unless the customer asks for leather. A good many do, including a few at Fort Benning.

Thanks for including me in your list...
 
Too much is made over the black appearance of 'tactical' knives. It just so happens that the most common and durable handle materials for hard use knives happen to be black micarta or black G-10. However, almost all of my knives are what I would consider tactical, and few of them have black blades, or even bead blasted blades if I can help it.

The meaning of the word 'tactical' as it is applied to high-end knives these days has transcended the old combat utility stereotype, the most common example of which would be the Ka-bar military issue knives. The rubber tends to meet the road in other places than battle fields, and the term 'tactical' has come to mean a knife that is ready for whatever is asked of it, be that ordinary utility, self-defense, or extreme rescue application.

I personally like tactical knives that are kinda pretty as well as multi-functional. Take this for example:

img37.jpg


My favorite "urban tactical" is pictured below. It is the functional equivalent of your Herron Stag hunter, but it is a little tougher, and not quite as valuable, so if I have to use it in the mud, or in a destructive life saving situation, it tolerate the damage somewhat better:

arc-red2.jpg
 
TAH
This is my opinion on tacticals. Most tactical knives are like most fishing lures. They catch more fisherman than fish. So, if you want to sell tacticals to a lot of people dress them up spooky looking or give them bone crushing, butt kicking names and make them dark colored and sell them to the client where he puts it up in his house and takes it out and plays with it.
Now. To what real tacticals are to people who need such.
Military people. These are nothing but underpaid campers who goes in harms way with guns to protect and defend us while they are carring a knife. In our modern times if this knife is used for something other than utility purposes generally something has gone bad wrong. There are some rare exceptions for this but rare.

Campers/hikers. People who camp without being paid. Most of the time does not carry a gun. They use a knife for Making themselves comfortable in the wilderness.

Outdoors people. People who frequent the outdoors and may on occasions rely upon a knife to cut a bit of wood for fires or to get them selves out of a jam of some kind in the field. ie hanging from a limb after slipping, or somesuch. Working the cows in the field or whatever their particular job may be.

The model I make for tactical is simply a spear point bowie like the old California bowies but with micarta so it will hold up under whatever conditions. Just a plain knife without a sharpened clip and it has a double guard. It is not threatening to look at by itself. This style of knife is very strong, simple to use. As far as self defense goes, whup that puppy out and somebody will shoot yer butt. Bill Bagwell once said, and I think it is the most profound thing Bill ever said, the best knife to use in a knife fight is a 12 guage pump shotgun.
So, I have said all of this to say to me tactical is strong utility. Nothing more. Just definition I guess or ones interpertation of it. That is like a skinning knife. My uncle skint ever thing he ever killed ,and there were truck loads of deer involved, with a case stockman. That was his definition of a skinner. And he was right. For him.
The Bowie knives of the 1800's were certainly tactical. Double edged etc. They were relied upon to defend themselves at times. They would still serve that purpose.
With all of the above I am not trying to sell you a knife just say this is what my version of a tactical knife is and why its design is as such. Kenny Rowe makes my sheaths and will make whatever style sheath you would like for what it is going to be used for.
Everyone else has their own versions. That is good. That is what keeps the world moving.
jf
 
Jerry,

I agree with your post and perhaps I shouldn't have generalized the term "tactical knife". The knives that I'm talking about are the ones that you described in your first paragraph.
 
TAH,

George Herron makes a great knife. He even made a Tactical Fighter for LDC, which have increased about 80% in value since the series sold out.

I don't know if indestructible is correct as any knife can be broken. However, as Jerry pointed tactical knives for the most part are butt ugly. Which is why a lot of people like them. Their apperance makes them "user friendly". When I was in the Army and I would get a new custom knife, the first thing I did with it was skip in the gravel. Then I didn't have to worry about it getting "scratched up".

These knives beg to be used.

Jerry, James and Laci are advanced martial artists, I suspect that they want the nicer looking knives for part of their collection and for demonstrations. Again, that is why people buy custom knives so they can have it the way that they want it.

My point is that "tactical knives" do not have natural materials for handles.

Again, I would suggest to you that you are mis-using the term tactical. While tactical knives can be used for self-defense, mine were never bought for that reason. Uncle Sam was nice enough to give me a M16 and a .45 pistol. In the military if you are using a knife for self-defense, things have really gone wrong. This is not to say that in certain situations that edged weapons were not called upon to eliminate the enemy. Perhpas the most leathal edged weapon used last century was in fact not a knife. During World War I entreching tool were shaprened and used in the trenchs. These would easily remove limbs and heads. As such, they were banned by the Geneva Convention.

Oddly enough swords were not banned. This just shows what was really used by the guy doing the fighting.

There are still a lot of people who ask for leather sheaths, old habits die hard. Leather sheaths lose their shape, the keeper straps stretch out to the point where they can allow a blade to slip out of the sheath. They hold moisture and tanic acid (both will rust your blade). What good is a sheath that you can't store your knife in for fear of it rusting? Lastly, leather sheaths can poke through and or cut through a leather sheath and cause the wearer of that sheath.
 
Les, James and Laci and some others have very specific reasons for wanting wood on their using (fighting) knives. I'm not aware either of those gentlemen acquire collectibles, per se.

I/we may have a semantics problem. Many of my customers are trained in Filipino Martial Arts. They refer to those blades as "Tactical". While there is certainly crossover, I generally refer to Military style knives as "Combat" knives. The latter is just my personal distinction though.
 
theres really no such thing as a tactical,knife
only in the minds of walter middies
and the dealers and makers that sell them

u all seem to be talking about
camp knives and killing knives

dress them how want
call them what u will
most camp knives r single edged
most killing knives r double edged

i can put blk spray paint on a machettie or a huntn knife and they r still what they r
how about some serrations or a saw back??
its still a camp knife w serrations
harley
who dont make tactical knives
www.lonesomepineknives.com
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
...James and Laci are advanced martial artists, I suspect that they want the nicer looking knives for part of their collection and for demonstrations. Again, that is why people buy custom knives so they can have it the way that they want it...
Click to expand...

I remember reading a forum post by JAK one time where he wrote of his preference for wood handled knives. I don't remember his exact assertions, but the jist of it was that, esotericly, wood handled knives provided a more active and mobile grip. I did not understand exactly, but the bottom line is that James Keating prefers wood handled knives for fighters, not for collecting.

Originally posted by Les Robertson
....My point is that "tactical knives" do not have natural materials for handles....
Click to expand...

Quite obviously, they sometimes do. Lots of issue Ka-bars and Randals with stacked leather handles out there. In the realm of urban knife carry where 95% of tactical knives are carried these days, stabalized wood handles can be tactical. Obviously they are not ideal for training knives, but they make good looking carry knives.

Originally posted by Les Robertson
...Again, I would suggest to you that you are mis-using the term tactical. While tactical knives can be used for self-defense, mine were never bought for that reason...In the military if you are using a knife for self-defense, things have really gone wrong.
Click to expand...

The term "tactical knife" has long ago taken on a far broader meaning than just a military combat utility/fighting knife. As far back as I can remember, having gotten involved in the high-end knife world only six or seven years ago, the term tactical has been applied primarily to hard-use folding knives, which are the knives that have been driving "tactical" knife popularity. These are knives that are designed for hard outdoor utility and also explicitly for self-defense for those who have not been loaned a rifle or a pistol by Uncle Sam. I am sure that the knives built back then, and now, by makers like Terzuola, Crawford, and Emerson were being sold primarily to law enforcement professionals who had a need for discreet carry, to citizens with similar needs, and to collectors, more than to active duty military who needed something quite different. So, to me, "tactical knife" means something like the Crawford Kasper Folding Fighter as much as it does a Brend Model 2.
 
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