Why the hate for 4116?

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OKay, as a working professional chef for over 30 years, all of those chef knives were abused. The one with hard parmesan cheese, the knife was likely "hit" with something because a smooth slicing motion wouldn't break out a section of the knife. Somebody effed up their knife doing stupid shit!


I've dropped my Wusthof knives onto concrete floors HUNDREDS of times over the years, and they never broke in half. The only one that broke in half had a 26# sheet tray of polenta smashed on top of the blade right at the bolster, and Wusthof warranteed it.
 
It is not the steel it’s the company. We go to reputable companies to buy reliable products, products that will continue to perform to our expectations. but, when the maker substitutes 4034 for carbon V on premium models at equally premium prices, or like Ontario switch 1095 with 1074, while continuing to misrepresent the line as 1095, there is reason to criticize the maker. In Ontario’s case it likely killed any remaining good will and ended them.

n2s
 
DocJD said:
Don't see any big huge carbide chunks, on either top or bottom knives in pic here :


Does OK for cheap knives ,IMO . If I pay more , I'd expect better . 🤷‍♂️
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Used my "Scalper" (top of pic) a few days ago to batten through some raw Acorn squash .

Amazingly ...no grossly visible damage occurred .( My SEM was out of order , so just mark 1 eyeball . )

Not exactly a Joe X destruct test . But it's just a budget value kitchen / light camp use knife .

Seems to be doing fine for my uses . :)

Considering I paid about $14 on sale , OK deal .
 
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DocJD said:
Used my "Scalper" (top of pic) a few days ago to batten through some raw Acorn squash .

Amazingly ...no grossly visible damage occurred .( My SEM was out of order , so just mark 1 eyeball . )

Not exactly a Joe X destruct test . But it's just a budget value kitchen / light camp use knife .

Seems to be doing fine for my uses . :)

Considering I paid about $14 on sale , OK deal .
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Well glad ya like it.

That's too bad about the SEM not working, maybe it's out of blinker fluid.
 
I'm sure I could find plenty of pictures of Buck 110's with catastrophic damage that proves that 420HC has poor toughness as well right?
 
DeadboxHero said:
This could show that a steel requires sufficient hardness to support larger carbides and that 55-56rc is too soft to support larger carbides leading to cracking and breaking as the supporting low strength matrix deforms.
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Trying to explain failure mode is a thankless - and often fruitless - pursuit, as much of this thread validates. If ya don’t wanna know, ya ain’t gonna know. 😉
 
Then there are people like this, get the cheap knife then chopping and even batoning with it without knowing the about steel, then brought it out again on the top list. (I do know Advanced Knife Bro)

The knife in the video is 1.4116. I also have it. It is the size of a Mora and works just as well despite the supposed "not adequate" alloy.
 
Victorinox uses 4116, right?

That said, I’ve had both good and bad experiences, even within the same brand. The clip point Cold Steel Pro Lites were downright bad, both in edge holding and sharpening. One of their kitchen/butcher knives, the Slock Master, has performed admirably (for the price).
 
Only read the first page here but I'm gonna take a hard pass on Cold Steel kitchen knives. Just look at Amazon reviews, these knives seem to chip very easily!!
Garbage steel just like my Spyderco Bow River, worst knife steel ever, it hasn't chipped but it holds an edge for like 5 minutes. Worst knife steel in my collection. Too bad too cause it would have been a great steak knife.

I'll stick w/ my Made In X50CrMoV15 NITRO+ Kitchen knife for now, I'm not overly impressed with this steel either but it's a great knife and at least strops & sharpens well. Also got an Oxford VG10 Damascus that is a great cheap kitchen knife!
STEEL MATTERS! IDC what anyone says
 
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sdmf74 said:
Only read the first page here but I'm gonna take a hard pass on Cold Steel kitchen knives. Just look at Amazon reviews, these knives seem to chip very easily!!
Garbage steel just like my Spyderco Bow River, worst knife steel ever, it hasn't chipped but it holds an edge for like 5 minutes. Worst knife steel in my collection. Too bad too cause it would have been a great steak knife.

I'll stick w/ my Made In X50CrMoV15 NITRO+ Kitchen knife for now, I'm not overly impressed with this steel either but it's a great knife and at least strops & sharpens well. Also got an Oxford VG10 Damascus that is a great cheap kitchen knife!
STEEL MATTERS! IDC what anyone says
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X50CrMoV15 is the same thing as 4116.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Bumping this thread.

I picked up 2 CS Slock Masters for my son and I to try out on fish and game.

Love the design... we will see how these things perform, and if they are worth a darn.

My main goal is to make thin cuts on venison for sun dried jerky, and to cut up pelagic fish.
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How was the edge retention? That’s really my only issue with 4116 with my (admittedly) limited use of it.
 
DangerZone98 said:
How was the edge retention? That’s really my only issue with 4116 with my (admittedly) limited use of it.
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Only limited use so far; mostly on plants and food.

I love the design...but need more time using it before passing judgment.

On this particular model, I added a small choil and also had to sharpen the heel a bit.
 
sdmf74 said:
Only read the first page here but I'm gonna take a hard pass on Cold Steel kitchen knives. Just look at Amazon reviews, these knives seem to chip very easily!!
Garbage steel just like my Spyderco Bow River, worst knife steel ever, it hasn't chipped but it holds an edge for like 5 minutes. Worst knife steel in my collection. Too bad too cause it would have been a great steak knife.

I'll stick w/ my Made In X50CrMoV15 NITRO+ Kitchen knife for now, I'm not overly impressed with this steel either but it's a great knife and at least strops & sharpens well. Also got an Oxford VG10 Damascus that is a great cheap kitchen knife!
STEEL MATTERS! IDC what anyone says
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chalby said:
X50CrMoV15 is the same thing as 4116.
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X50CrMoV15 Nitro+ is not the same as X50CrMoV15. The Nitro+ version has added nitrogen. I don't have personal experience with this one but if it's anything like BD1 versus BD1N, that's a good thing.

BTW, 4116 and the base X50CrMoV15 are also similar to 5Cr15Mov. Consider how that one is viewed in the current market: hot garbage. Just to give you an idea, 8Cr13Mov is now largely considered an obsolete budget steel but is in turn considered a significant upgrade from 5Cr15MoV in terms of edge retention.

That said, I've long lamented Spyderco hanging on to 8Cr13Mov while the Chinese companies making their own knives next door have moved on to better steels at the same (or better) prices. Yeah, I know Larrin recently defended this steel. Yes, 8Cr13Mov does have reasonable toughness and total edge life might be on par with 14C28N. However, total edge life doesn't tell the whole story. I think what S sdmf74 is referring to is the loss of "fine edge". It is easy to get very sharp and can be easily stropped back to very sharp but it loses that high degree of sharpness very quickly, dropping down to a ho-hum working edge for the rest of that total edge life.
 
So, are the Forschner kitchen knives (now branded "Victorinox" or "Forschner Victorinox") made of this supposedly terrible steel?

Because I have a raft of them and haven't had any trouble with any of them. Stuff gets scary sharp and seems to hold up fine cutting food, although I don't often chop up cinderblocks...

I also dropped one as I was opening the package from the seller, and it stuck into the floor next to my foot :eek: with about 3/16" of the tip buried with a BOING ... and survived that unscathed. I honestly expected the tip to break off, or at least bend...but no visible damage.
 
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Cementite said:
So, are the Forschner kitchen knives (now branded "Victorinox" or "Forschner Victorinox") made of this supposedly terrible steel?

Because I have a raft of them and haven't had any trouble with any of them. Stuff gets scary sharp and seems to hold up fine cutting food, although I don't often chop up cinderblocks...

I also dropped one as I was opening the package from the seller, and it stuck into the floor next to my foot :eek: with about 3/16" of the tip buried with a BOING ... and survived that unscathed. I honestly expected the tip to break off, or at least bend...but no visible damage.
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I agree Victorianox makes good kitchen knives I have several 10 in chef vegetable cleaver paring knife they all perform excellent and two or three swioes on a ceramic rod or leather strop and they get super sharp. For the money they can't be beat
 
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