Why was the SAR8 review thread closed?

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Jerry Busse said:
For the record, I am the one who closed the thread. There was little room to call Kyley's review objective or fair. . . Ridiculous? Yes. . . . Objective and/or fair? No.

I do not have a problem with negative reviews, (we have had our fair share), unless they take a bad turn toward personal attacks, cross forum posting, not family friendly, or are suspect of not being fair or objective. . . . This review touches on all of those and is nothing more than stepping on our reputation in order to make a reputation for himself. . . . It is unfortunate.

Kyley is just another in the long line of newbees who believes that they have discovered some lost secret of edge or bevel geometry. They look at one performance criteria and do not consider any other. There are many other criteria that need to be considered if you strive to make the very best knife for an intended application that will most assuredly need to be something more than just one dimensional.

I can hold the SAR 8 with a loose grip and by using poor cutting angles take 40-60 chops into a 2x4 without going all the way through. I can then use a firm grip and employ better chopping angles with the exact same knife and give a stellar performance by chopping through the same 2x4 with far less impacts.

This is why we always call these makers or manufacturers out to do a "Live" demonstration with their own blades in front of a "live audience" to duplicate ALL of our tests, which we have done on numerous occasions. . . . It is also why NONE of these makers or manufacturers have ever tried to use one of their own blades to duplicate the full battery of our tests in front of a "live" audience.

Making a knife excel at one or two criteria is not a big deal. . . . Making one knife that excels at all of these tests is a whole different game. . . . and it is what sets us apart from the rest of the industry.

My crew and I have been working 16-20 hours a day with no time for sleep, or for our families, in preparing for the BLADE Show. I have had little to no time to post on the forums, let alone time to deal with this nonsense. But since I have been called out as to why the thread was locked, I have been given little choice.

So, for your viewing pleasure here is a little more info that you might find interesting.


This is not the first review of the SAR 8 from Kyley Harris. Nearly 2 1/2 years prior to this (Before he was making and promoting his own blades at our expense) Kyley wrote these comments about his SAR 8 on this forum.

1 year later he wrote this about his SCABS. . . . . .


". . . you will never get a bad word from me for your product" . . .. Hmmmmm. . . . So what changed? :confused: . . . . Nothing changed on this end and the only change that took place on the other end was that Kyley started making his own knives.

Look, I'm sure that Kyley is a great guy. I'm sure that he makes a fine knife. I just don't go for attacking another maker's reputation in order to promote your own blades.

Makers and manufacturers need to stand on their own merits. Attacking another maker's reputation is beneath our trade and craft.

Let's Drink! :thumbup:

Jerry :D
Click to expand...

dropping some knowledge...

Yeeeeaaaah Jerry. PS send me a Rattlehawk!
 
Jerry, I had no idea Kyley had posted before. Well, well then! It's all clear now, thank for shining the light on the subject :)
 
Huh ?...........................in my best Bravado voice ;)
 
I agree with peters take on it. There are a few things that make me step back from a review and start filtering it more heavily for content, such as using the phrase "fanboys" as a way to approach reviewing a knife. The fans of a knife have no impact on the performance of a knife, nor should they impact your concept of it's worth.

Choice of words and agenda aside, peters comments seem true regarding edge thickness and expectations. You can't expect a knife that's .040 behind the edge to perform the same as a knife that's .020 behind the edge. If you want the thicker to perform like the thinner, thin it down or buy a model that represents what you want. Just don't make a direct comparison and expect them to perform the same, they won't.
 
regardless, he still had some valid critisisms.

"Making a knife excel at one or two criteria is not a big deal. . . ." So:

What I took from his speech was that Busse knives have lots of metal behind the edge. They aren't slicers. They are choppers but not the most efficent. They aren't light., They are heavy.


Sucks the thread got closed. I think we can be grownups and look past the nonsense that was spoken in the video and still discuss... Or not.
 
petah said:
What I took from his speech was that Busse knives have lots of metal behind the edge. They aren't slicers. They are choppers but not the most efficent. They aren't light., They are heavy.
Click to expand...

While it is true that the standard chopper from busse has a very thick edge and is heavy, it can depend on the model and the finish. You won't find a true zero pukko style edge, but the competition finish on knives like the sarsquatch represents a relatively thin edge and grind for a knife of that size, at least one expected to take the abuse busse's are expected to.
 
Jerry. I've replied to this on the Original forum where I posted.

I've allready called you to task from what you've said IMO.

You asked whats changed.. I'll tell you.. My opinion..

Do I love the SAR8.. yes.. its one of the pride of my collection.. am i impressed with the performance now? no..
what changed.. originally when posting that comment I was in honeymoon phase getting the coolest knife ever that I had to sell about 40 of my cheap assed knives to pay for.. it was a long save... say what you feel like now that you are all upset watching my opinion.. but I still had to work a good hundred hours of my hobby time to pay for that single knife.. so dont throw your damn nickers at me thanks all of you.

what changed between the time of that video (which is a while ago now) and the original comments was actually getting out and using it for an hour or two, and then doing that video for a friend PRIVATELY who wanted to know how I felt about it. I think thats my right..
While I love the knife.. in my personal opinion the overinflated hyperbole of marketing attached to it doesn't match the knife as received..

you can mock my voice, weight, cutting skills all your like to make yourself feel better (and I dont mean Jerry here) but that doesn't take away the fact that if you apply all that logic to how well other tools do in the same task then it shows even worse assessment.

YOU ARE ALL IGNORING A SIMPLE FACT..
THIS VIDEO WAS PRIVATE..
The person that Publically linked it here is the same person that pushed me for my opinion on the knife in the first place.
that same person is the one that pushed me to "demonstrate" in another video.. the 2nd vid to "proove" to him..
All the while I had no idea this clown was taking those and linking them here and talking smack.

I have a right to my opinon.. I have a right to change my opinion after use.. You can talk all you like about coming down on other makers etc etc.. but that wasn't done here by me.. I VLOG'ed some private thoughts for a few friends.. thedemoteamone is the person that has been cross forum posting things he new before hand to be unlisted, and unpublished.. I made it clear in the forum, and the video, so that people would respect that and not repost it "just because they could"

its all well and good to make assumptions about skill, and all sorts, or try and make it seem like I'm trying to take away customers from Busse "because I make knives"

the simple reality is that if any of you took the actual time to watch my channel deeply, rather than just have at it here on 1 video then you would know that I do nothing but say good about busse, and do nothing except demonstrate good and bad things about my knives, or anyones knives..

if you want to hide in a hole and just pretend everything is perfect and works perfectly then you are doing no service to the makers, and the makers are not doing a service to you.

Jerry quoted some old comments and made some newbie comments that are nothing but assumptions on his part easily shown to be wrong..

there is only 2 reasons to post this.. one to make it clear that my intent is never to "hurt another maker, but I'm not going to lie for the sake of one"

the 2nd reason is to say.. TheDemoTeamOne.. you are an ahole.

Enjoy your knives fellas.

Jerry.. sorry if you are upset about the video.. but to say its ridiculous or biased...
the point of those soft strikes was to show that even with 550grams of weight it could hardly cut twigs easily. thats all about the edge geometry and you know it.. if I have to put excessive strikes onto that knife every time just for kindling, then its NOT the knife I want out camping.. it might be what I want in a bomb shelter.. but not in a camp.

Do you think it makes me happy to spend $650 on a knife and goto do a great review and be left sad enough and depressed that a knife I love did so less than I wanted or expected.....? thats why it was unlisted.

Still.. it was very interesting to read all the personal statements issued about me rather than any actual talk on the knife.. very englightening.


Jerry Busse said:
For the record, I am the one who closed the thread. There was little room to call Kyley's review objective or fair. . . Ridiculous? Yes. . . . Objective and/or fair? No.

I do not have a problem with negative reviews, (we have had our fair share), unless they take a bad turn toward personal attacks, cross forum posting, not family friendly, or are suspect of not being fair or objective. . . . This review touches on all of those and is nothing more than stepping on our reputation in order to make a reputation for himself. . . . It is unfortunate.

Kyley is just another in the long line of newbees who believes that they have discovered some lost secret of edge or bevel geometry. They look at one performance criteria and do not consider any other. There are many other criteria that need to be considered if you strive to make the very best knife for an intended application that will most assuredly need to be something more than just one dimensional.

I can hold the SAR 8 with a loose grip and by using poor cutting angles take 40-60 chops into a 2x4 without going all the way through. I can then use a firm grip and employ better chopping angles with the exact same knife and give a stellar performance by chopping through the same 2x4 with far less impacts.

This is why we always call these makers or manufacturers out to do a "Live" demonstration with their own blades in front of a "live audience" to duplicate ALL of our tests, which we have done on numerous occasions. . . . It is also why NONE of these makers or manufacturers have ever tried to use one of their own blades to duplicate the full battery of our tests in front of a "live" audience.

Making a knife excel at one or two criteria is not a big deal. . . . Making one knife that excels at all of these tests is a whole different game. . . . and it is what sets us apart from the rest of the industry.

My crew and I have been working 16-20 hours a day with no time for sleep, or for our families, in preparing for the BLADE Show. I have had little to no time to post on the forums, let alone time to deal with this nonsense. But since I have been called out as to why the thread was locked, I have been given little choice.

So, for your viewing pleasure here is a little more info that you might find interesting.


This is not the first review of the SAR 8 from Kyley Harris. Nearly 2 1/2 years prior to this (Before he was making and promoting his own blades at our expense) Kyley wrote these comments about his SAR 8 on this forum.

1 year later he wrote this about his SCABS. . . . . .


". . . you will never get a bad word from me for your product" . . .. Hmmmmm. . . . So what changed? :confused: . . . . Nothing changed on this end and the only change that took place on the other end was that Kyley started making his own knives.

Look, I'm sure that Kyley is a great guy. I'm sure that he makes a fine knife. I just don't go for attacking another maker's reputation in order to promote your own blades.

Makers and manufacturers need to stand on their own merits. Attacking another maker's reputation is beneath our trade and craft.

Let's Drink! :thumbup:

Jerry :D
Click to expand...
 
No, you're an *******.
Take you **** bag responsibility before make it publicly. IMO!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
demoteamone said:
No, you're an a******.
Take you s**** bag responsibility before make it publicly. IMO!
Click to expand...

and thats part of why the original thread was closed. If the players involved want to resort to name calling in a discussion dragged cross forums it will lead down a bad path. Theres no need to resort to this kind of language.

As to ckc's claim that it's unlisted: If you post a video on a public forum (which this was) it's public, even if you can't search it on youtube. The forum it was originally posted in is not private, so the video is not private.

The problem isn't that your saying that busse's edges are too thick, or that the claim of excellent cutting conflicts with your experience or understanding of edge geometry. It's the way your saying it and approaching it. two ways of saying it:
1: 'It seems that the claim of excellent cutting geometry is overstated. The edge should be half as thick to match that description'
2: 'The marketing is bulls***, an intentional lie to sell more knives.'

Approach 1 will get you a sympathetic ear and good discussion. Approach 2 will get you a flame war.
 
Anyone care to guess why THIS thread just got locked? :rolleyes:
 
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