Why?

[Shotgun]

Thanks for clearing that all up. I hand't realized this, and I'm really glad to know that someone around here has it all figured out. Also, where does one go to have their opinions elevated to something like a natural law...the legislature? God? Nature? I just hope that when some other know-it-all decides that my edc SAK is a weapon because it's over an inch long, has a point, and is sharpened, that they too have a satisfactory substitute for me to use similar to what you've proposed above.

I agree with you on this. I love when a person says a tactical knife is a weapon. Tactical is a word not an object. My backpack has a tactical sling, does that mean it’s a weapon? My flashlight is a tactical flashlight... I guess that’s a weapon too. People make me laugh. There are plenty of big knives that are not tactical and have been used as weapons. In fact I find that if you studied the history of crime in N. America and looked at every knife related incident and out of those incidents found which crimes were committed with “tactical" knives you would find that it’s a very small amount. A tactical knife is a tactical knife because a company called it one. It’s not like an automatic or semi-automatic firearm that is so because of it’s operation. Tactical is a name and that’s it. A fighting knife is not a tactical knife.

You can hate what he has to say all you want but it has mirrored my experience with non-knife people absolutely. Slip-joint equals pocket knife, modern "tactical" folder equals weapon. That's how they react like it or not. Life isn't fair and this is one of those times where life isn't going our way.

 

[coffeecat]

I've gotten scared reactions from a Dozier folding hunter, which is neither slip-joint nor tactical. (Whatever that is. What's a tactical flashlight? Or a tactical pen? For invading the accounting department?)

 

[allyourblood]

So many things to say... so many points to argue... realizing it will get me nowhere and it won't change anyone's mind... looking for next thread...

(good luck to those of you fighting the good fight, whichever you are!)

 

[DrPenguin]

There's some crossover and some gray area here... don't think anyone will deny that.

But let me pose a few questions if you would.

Given the choice would you choose

:a slipjoint knife or a locking one for SD or combat?

:beautiful jigged bone or ebony or, say, something with more grip for messy situations found in SD or combat?

:a design that takes a few seconds to extract from a pocket and hold in one hand and open with the other or something that clips to the top of the pocket and flicks open with the brush of a thumb for SD or combat?

:something with a slender profile and narrow grind for precise cutting or something with a much tougher profile and grind which makes it tougher to use for everyday knife chores but better for SD or combat?

Fact is that there are tradeoffs that typically are made in any design. When you start seeing feature after feature being chosen with an eye for defense or combat... well it is done for a reason. It is not that they are evil or anything like that it is just that we have to admit that in all honesty there is a hell of a difference between your typical Case peanut or cigar folder and your typical 'tactical' knife. We may not like that tag but let's be honest it is knife makers who chose that tag not some nefarious group of that hates knives. And they chose it for a reason.

It is very true that a good many hunting knives and bushcraft knives can share features with so called tactical knives. But honesty demands that we not start from some assumption that a knife is a knife is a knife regardless of how it is constructed. That is just not true. Especially when you see someone carrying a knife that gives up utility and ease of use in order to have some of these features.

At least IMvHO.

Will

 

[ThirdTooth]

I hear about the 10-20 people a year that use knifes to hurt people in my city via news and radio, but never the thousands more who use knives to open packages, cut veggies, and do yard work. maybe that has something to do with it.

I think whats most important is that those of us who carry knives responsibly and are genuinely good people don't actively hide that we are knife people, not necessarily tout it around either but we need to show the world that were not criminals and freaks, because the mainstream media certainly won't show people that. And really play up the utility aspect over the self defense aspect, the sheeple can sympathize over how annoying clam packs are to open much sooner than they can understand the fear of a house invasion for some bizarre reason.

 

[Fat Goat Forge]

If I recall the majority of knife assaults are done with a kitchen knife. They are readily avialable in the heat of the moment and are very pointy, very sharp (Full flat grind makes for a great slicer) and very long so they can penetrate deeply. I think its an image thing the same people at the office who flip out when somebody opens a package with a spyderco dragonfly think nothing of cutting the cake at the promotion party in the break room with a 14" butchers knive thats in the silverware drawer. The cake cutting knife is a fantastic weapon but has a benign image. The little spyderco is a tactical, fighting knife, with a clip and one handed opening hole for quick deployment.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

My earlier post went on at length. That was probably a mistake. Doesn't matter that you say a truth if nobody reads it.

Let me 'splain . . . No there is too much. Let me sum up:

• There are people who want everyone to be quiet and well behaved, and will enforce that where possible.
• There are people who go along with that because it hurts less to agree, and they can cause you grief.
• You need to know this so you can guard against it.

• Bad PR hurts whatever cause you're trying to support.
• Presenting objects that trigger surprise, fear, or other defense mechanisms is not good PR.
• Large knives, especially those crafted to look aggressive or designed with combat in mind, can trigger that stuff.
• Smaller knives, especially cute ones and refined ones that look mostly harmless are less likely to trigger that stuff.

• Rudeness and assertions of right are not good PR.
• Politeness, persuasion, and education are good PR.

Good PR = signals that are easily received.

• Send only signals that are easily received.
• Be prepared to politely and persuasively receive and respond to whatever signals you receive.

 

[GAN84]

I teased you a bit in my earlier post because I can get pretty long-winded, myself. A little self-deprecation combined with light humor; didn't mean for anyone to take it the wrong way. I'd much rather read one well-written, intelligent and long post than some half-hearted (and half-witted) oversimplified one-liner that tells us nothing about anything.

Cheers, dude :thumbup:

 

[Tim616]

I still see it this way:

-The person who is against knife carry, doesn't mind the possibility of some drugged up random beating them to death with their fists in a parking lot.

-The person who does carry a knife, feels much better about the outcome of the above situation should it ever arise.

Bottom line once again, the world is not safe (at all, sorry if you think it is, you're delusional)

Carry a weapon. Let the sheep think you're wrong for it. Oh well, life rolls on.

 

[rogerxd45]

i live in an area that is more rural but is becoming more urban and i find more of the urban people view it as a weapon but the people in the rural area of town see it as a tool. i personally use mine everyday. most of those jobs could be done without a knife but its just easier with one. i bet if you got people who dont carry knives to do so for a month they would probably continue to do so. in fact i have converted a couple people to EDC knife users

 

[killgar]

I think its an image thing the same people at the office who flip out when somebody opens a package with a spyderco dragonfly think nothing of cutting the cake at the promotion party in the break room with a 14" butchers knive thats in the silverware drawer.

This is an excellent point and illustrates that it's not knives that people are afraid of but the "context" of the knives they see. A knife kept in a kitchen drawer doesn't scare people because that's considered the knifes "proper" place. I don't imagine that anyone has ever freaked-out while visiting a friend and seeing a knife block full of BIG knives sitting out in the open on their kitchen counter. But the sight of a person carrying a knife implies "weapon" in the minds of many. And in the minds of many people a weapon represents danger, pain, and death.

Irrational fear is a common trait among human beings. And anything perceived as a weapon often triggers that irrational fear.

I really wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to make sense of the irrational fear of others. After all, sometimes human beings just don't make any sense.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Totally agree on irrational fear here. I used my SRM763 (small, <3" blade) to open coffee packs and still some considered it weapon. Usin a SAK that has longer blade doesn't invitenthe same reaction.

Will try to be a better ambassador to our hobby. Some have inquired about sharpening, whih I think of as good sign

 

[EricV]

I had a recent conversation with a kid along these lines:

Kid: "So you carry a knife all day every day?!"
Me: "Not all day, and not every day, but most days most times. You never know when you might need something separated"
kid: "But who needs to cut things everyday?"
Me: "Me. And probably everyone else under the Sun...Did you not just see me cut the tags off that shirt?"
Kid: "I guess, it just seems excessive"
Me: "Well it might be for you but not for me, I'll talk to you in a bit I've gotta get lunch"
*Proceed to cut up banana, bread, and spread PB on a sandwich. Then cut up a grapefruit all with one tool.

I think it comes down to people just not using their darn head logically.


And what Powernoodle said.

 

[uyotg]

Do all these people really believe what Powernoodle said? I don't know, it seems like such a stretch and a far connection. Poor parenting? Vindictiveness? Inferiority complex? Those are pretty general, complex things to be assuming of everyone who doesn't regularly carry knives. Maybe we don't have to delve into their psyche and their innermost fears and examine their upbringing and phobias; maybe those people just don't use knives regularly like we do. I know that sounds less scientific and Freudian, but it seems more reasonable to me.

 

[powernoodle]

Do all these people really believe what Powernoodle said? I don't know, it seems like such a stretch and a far connection. Poor parenting? Vindictiveness? Inferiority complex?

Esteemed moderators, I recognize that this isn't the political forum, so I'll have to tapdance a little on this. But The Powernoodle Principle that I outlined above explains how and why a certain demographic acts the way it does on not just knives, but on everything. This principle can be applied to all areas of human thought from economics to foreign affairs to social policy to education, and reliably and predictably reveals - in advance - how this demographic will act on any issue. For the longest time, I considered how this demographic could be so consistently wrong on everything. I understand how anyone can be wrong some of the time, because I'm wrong some of the time too. But I wondered why some people were wrong all of the time - and this explains it. I have applied The Powernoodle Principle here to explain this demographic's knife phobia, but it explains everything from hatred of big corporations to the demise of the space program. Apply it where ever you see this demographic take action, and a cartoon lightbulb will appear above your head as it did mine. Look everywhere for this demographic's revenge on life's "unfair winners", and it will all start to make sense. It makes sense on a micro-analytical scale (like this thread topic) and it makes sense on a macro scale too (economics, foreign affairs, etc.).

Anyways, Who Cares What People Think?

I care only because they influence public policy (workplace rules, social morays, and statutes of law), and that does affect me. The time to care is now, before its too late. No one ever thought the incandescent lightbulb or the 5 gallon toilet tank would be banned either.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

It's not about whether or not people carry knives, but the existence of people who act shocked or frightened that others do. Unless they were traumatized as victims of a knife attack or being threatened with a knife, it's irrational. A lot more brutal attacks take place daily around the world with fists and shoes - chances are they can be surrounded by plenty of those without fear.

The feeble character of certain people is the reason we have to pay for CCW licenses and organizations like Knife Rights exist, can't respect that and them not wanting to carry a knife really doesn't matter one way or the other. Technology is moving forward while character and fortitude is diminishing, going deeper than one physical therapist freaking out over a pocket knife.

 

[nagod]

this might be a strange question at this point,did N8swag ever tell us what knife and how noticed?there is a big difference between carrying 15 inch bowie iwb and having a sak on your keychain. carrying appropriately for the situation negates most of the problems you run into.

 

[uyotg]

Esteemed moderators, I recognize that this isn't the political forum, so I'll have to tapdance a little on this... .

Noodle, thanks for responding regardless of that. I see where you're coming from now. It's more political than your first post made itself out to be, which is why I questioned it in the first place, so let's leave it here.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Noodle, thanks for responding regardless of that. I see where you're coming from now. It's more political than your first post made itself out to be, which is why I questioned it in the first place, so let's leave it here.

Indeed.

My "long and winding post" made a similar effort to avoid political framing.

It's hard to discuss a dysfunction without making the observation that people who share that dysfunction tend to collect into groups of one kind or another.

Especially when you're trying to understand why [some irrational behavior] is seemingly pervasive.

Pretty much invites you into the swamps of sub-cultures and politics.

 

[uyotg]

Indeed.

My "long and winding post" made a similar effort to avoid political framing.

It's hard to discuss a dysfunction without making the observation that people who share that dysfunction tend to collect into groups of one kind or another.

Especially when you're trying to understand why [some irrational behavior] is seemingly pervasive.

Pretty much invites you into the swamps of sub-cultures and politics.

Sorry Arfin, but I was also guilty of the tl;dr laziness earlier I just read your post and it clarifies both of your views better. Still, I'm lost on the political tie to it. Both of your observations may be correct, and I admit I'm just a 26-year-old guy who does not know everything, but it just seems like a far-fetched assumption that all people who are against knives are of "this demographic," who all react to superiority in the same way and share those same life experiences. As you said yourself, these people are only on one extreme of that bell curve (you actually didn't describe a bell curve because you only had one extreme, whereas bell curves have two extremes), not nearly a majority.

It's still my view that the majority of people just don't know any better; just don't have to use knives and, in turn, see their peers as not needing knives; and have impressions shaped by media, because, as I said, who cares if someone whips out a knife to peel an apple? But everyone cares if someone uses a knife to stab someone, including the media, and we as knife lovers are not any special in that regard. Video games are targeted as well whenever some guy goes on a killing spree and someone finds out he used to play Call of Duty or World of Warcraft or something.

Like you said, it's just public image and different cultures. Where I am, no one needs to carry a knife around, but we all have the capacity to learn and understand, and it's much more persuasive to educate than to accuse of some inferiority complex. If someone refuses to learn, that's really too bad for them, but that's a pretty small number of people in my experience. It's PR again--it's just these extremes that are often highlighted in media.