Wilderness Skills Question--READ CAREFULLY

Learn to use a small knife to do big blade tasks.

Learn to use a big blade to do small knife tasks.

Then, bring them both out and hang them in a tree at camp. Make it so that you have to walk over to them everytime you need a blade. If you are honest to yourself, you will soon find out which type is more suited to your particular user style.

I think it takes more skill to make a small knife do big blade tasks and i don't want to have to rely on impeccable skill and concentration when the chips are down.

Rick
 
Making a small knife do large knife tasks is harder.

Additionally, I view carrying only a small knife to be based upon the assumption that one is always fully mission capable. It's easy to build a shelter with a small knife when the weather isn't bad, you are well rested, and you are not in a time crunch. Add some fatigue, some creeping in hypothermia, and a little bit of panic and the time you would save building a shelter with a large blade might be a good thing.

I am trying to make a large do small blade tasks at present. Thus far I have been successful. I have a LONG way to go. I hope to start working "try" sticks this weekend.

-Stan
 
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5 Great Replies

Very well thought out and written!!!

I judge the reply as if a novice to knife use would understand it as well as an expert would.

Excellent...........
 
stanley_white said:
Making a small knife do large knife tasks is harder.

Additionally, I view carrying only a small knife to be based upon the assumption that one is always fully mission capable. It's easy to build a shelter with a small knife when the weather isn't bad, you are well rested, and you are not in a time crunch. Add some fatigue, some creeping in hypothermia, and a little bit of panic and the time you would save building a shelter with a large blade might be a good thing.

I am trying to make a large do small blade tasks at present. Thus far I have been successful. I have a LONG way to go. I hope to start working "try" sticks this weekend.

-Stan
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again--you and Rick make excellent points

and Rick knows a LOT more than I do and most other people on thise forums I'll wager--and I'm not going to argue with his advice or opinion,......as it is based on skill and experience.

And your point about using a small knife when you are running short of time or daylight is excellent.

You might be able to build a shelter with a small knife--if you have enough time.

Again--you and Rick make some great points--as have the rest of you .
 
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I went to a small fixed custom after breaking several folders.Asked custom maker of Roiberts Roost knives if he a a model that was around the same size as a larger folder 3-4 inches blade length .Thought that I had the best of two worlds. That iis until I tipped over a moose and tried to gut and clean on site.That small fixed blade relly let me down on that ocasion. Managed to get the chore done marginally.Lesson learned- since then I always carry a larger blade wrapped in a protective cloth in the old faithful rigging sack. Like this one
mattfish041.jpg

So I guess my answer is a hedged- carry 2 knives if you are going to encounter chores that may require smaller or larger blades! Hows that for setting a fence!!
Blade pictures an IVAN CAMPOS Simplicity Series. Tough sharp functional
Dan'l
 
For myself & my personal experience, I think it's hard for me to take a "small" knife & make it work like a "Big" knife. Yes I can make a "small" knife do the chores of the "Big" knife but it does take more effort & energy. Growing up, I watched & learned from my dad who always carried a Western W49 Bowie when we were in the hills. I've seen him do everything from process game (squirrels up to deer) to build traps & snares with this knife. This is what I was taught so thats what I like to use (BK9). But this is just me & my thoughts...to each his own;)
 
dboles---I have 2 from Ivan..He makes great knives.Yours looks sweet!!!

Coaldigger--I'm more like you.I like bigger blades better and like you I'm much better at making a big knife do things a small knife can do than the reverse.
 
excellent question and some excellent answers. heres my rusty penny...

as a few have said i believe its easier to learn BASIC knife skills on a 3-4" blade and from there adapt the concepts to different knife sizes.

that being said, i believe a big knife can do a smaller knives chores sufficiently and efficiently while a smaller blade doing a big blades chores might accomplish those tasks but be cumbersome and inefficient.

there was a recent thread about one hand fire starting and i remember reading people having problems processing wood with a smaller knife....also in my neck of the woods using a 4" blade as a machete just wont cut it (pun intended!).
 
WILLIAM.M said:
Wilderness Skills Question--




There are 2 Camps here--

Camp 1 states that small knives are all you need and if you need more -it's due to a lack of skill or experience.

Camp 2 states that you need the biggest fixed blade you can carry-and if it's too heavy then you're too weak.


By small I mean blade length of 3-4"

Large is anything past 5-6"

What takes more SKILL and Time to learn???

Thanks for your reply

Dr.Bill
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I have a few issues with this, the first being that your definition of the two camps are very extreme and I know most people are somewhere in the middle-there's a huge difference between the question that you ask and the two camps. "If it's too heavy then you're too weak" and "If you need any more it's due to lack of experience" don't really fit the question that you ask.

I think this an extremely broad question. You can choke up on the spine of many large blades to gain precision very easily. I've cleaned trout with a 14 inch tramontina machete-fish that were shorter than the blade length. Of course it wasn't AS efficient as a Rapala would have been, but it was quite expedient and effective-it would have taken longer to wait for my friend to get done using my knife to gut his fish than it would have been to just do it with a Tram. On the other hand, I've tried some of Ray Mears' and IAWoodsman's methods of cutting down trees and splitting wood with small knives, and bolting and cross-battening with a mora are a cinch. Some tasks in both camps are easier than other tasks in both camps, so I feel that if I break individual tasks up into the camps, I will probably have a solid 50/50 result-and it's probably not because my blade is too heavy, not heavy enough or because I lack the experience and skill. Machetes are fantastic tools for making igloos when you're backcountry skiing. I just got done filing sawteeth on the spine of a 16 inch stainless steel Imacasa for carving snow shelters this winter. In the Sawtooths and many other places, the snow covers most of the treetops for much of the winter, and in a situation like that a Mora is not going to build you a shelter whether you're the most skilled bushcrafter in the world or if you've never held a knife before. The material you have to build shelters out of is snow, ice and the water you can melt on your stove, and a Mora may make you a barbie sized snowcastle but you'll spend a week trying to carve out igloo blocks or digging out a snow cave. I know alot of small knives that can take battoning, prying and digging with less chance of damage than many large knives. For example, take a look at the DPX HEST. That knife is much more sturdy and robust than say a 24 inch Tramontina. You can drawknife with a smaller blade, though it won't be as efficient as a large knife. You can carve out a figure 4 trap with a machete but it probably won't look as nice as as it would with a bushcraft knife. I don't think learning how to be precise with a large blade or effective with a small blade at large tasks is harder (or will take longer) than one another-it's all a matter of just taking the time to learn how to manipulate a well maintained tool to get the job done.

It always impressed me watching grunts clear houses block-by-block toting an M240 machine gun. They manipulate what they are given and take the small amount of time to learn just how to get the most out of those beastly machine guns to clear houses that should have been done with a 4 pound MP5. Applying this to bushcrafting tools, I am steadliy growing a larger appreciation for the 'one knife' kind of people.

Something I find incredibly impressive is just how detailed Ray Mears can be with a fullsized axe. Now THAT is something I really want to work on...

The second issue is that you leave out the 4-5 inch range entirely and most of my favorite bushcraft knives are in the 4-5 inch range.
 
PayetteRucker said:
.
I have a few issues with this, the first being that your definition of the two camps are very extreme and I know most people are somewhere in the middle-there's a huge difference between the question that you ask and the two camps. "If it's too heavy then you're too weak" and "If you need any more it's due to lack of experience" don't really fit the question that you ask.

I think this an extremely broad question. You can choke up on the spine of many large blades to gain precision very easily. I've cleaned trout with a 14 inch tramontina machete-fish that were shorter than the blade length. Of course it wasn't AS efficient as a Rapala would have been, but it was quite expedient and effective-it would have taken longer to wait for my friend to get done using my knife to gut his fish than it would have been to just do it with a Tram. On the other hand, I've tried some of Ray Mears' and IAWoodsman's methods of cutting down trees and splitting wood with small knives, and bolting and cross-battening with a mora are a cinch. Some tasks in both camps are easier than other tasks in both camps, so I feel that if I break individual tasks up into the camps, I will probably have a solid 50/50 result-and it's probably not because my blade is too heavy, not heavy enough or because I lack the experience and skill. Machetes are fantastic tools for making igloos when you're backcountry skiing. I just got done filing sawteeth on the spine of a 16 inch stainless steel Imacasa for carving snow shelters this winter. In the Sawtooths and many other places, the snow covers most of the treetops for much of the winter, and in a situation like that a Mora is not going to build you a shelter whether you're the most skilled bushcrafter in the world or if you've never held a knife before. The material you have to build shelters out of is snow, ice and the water you can melt on your stove, and a Mora may make you a barbie sized snowcastle but you'll spend a week trying to carve out igloo blocks or digging out a snow cave. I know alot of small knives that can take battoning, prying and digging with less chance of damage than many large knives. For example, take a look at the DPX HEST. That knife is much more sturdy and robust than say a 24 inch Tramontina. You can drawknife with a smaller blade, though it won't be as efficient as a large knife. You can carve out a figure 4 trap with a machete but it probably won't look as nice as as it would with a bushcraft knife. I don't think learning how to be precise with a large blade or effective with a small blade at large tasks is harder (or will take longer) than one another-it's all a matter of just taking the time to learn how to manipulate a well maintained tool to get the job done.

It always impressed me watching grunts clear houses block-by-block toting an M240 machine gun. They manipulate what they are given and take the small amount of time to learn just how to get the most out of those beastly machine guns to clear houses that should have been done with a 4 pound MP5. Applying this to bushcrafting tools, I am steadliy growing a larger appreciation for the 'one knife' kind of people.

Something I find incredibly impressive is just how detailed Ray Mears can be with a fullsized axe. Now THAT is something I really want to work on...

The second issue is that you leave out the 4-5 inch range entirely and most of my favorite bushcraft knives are in the 4-5 inch range.
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A lot of your choice has to do with where you live.

IAWOODSMAN can do things with a small knife in Iowa because he is not chopping Mesquite.(I went to High School and Chiropractic College in Iowa)

A small knife or Tomahawk are much less effectve on Mesquite compared to an Axe or Big Chopper.

And most people I know that are into Bushcraft a lot more than me tell me that a 5" blade is too long for what they want to do---but if it works for you--Cool.

and as far as htre 2 Camps--That is just my opinion.

I'm sure there are those that think an axe or saw and an SAK is the best combo----and for them it is.

There are no right or correct answers to this question--it was posted to get people to think about what they carry and express that view to others so that they can pass on that viewpoint and knowledge.

I chop about 3000(Three thousand) times/month and chuckle when people try to tell me what a big knife can and can not do--- especially when they have never seen much less chopped Mesquite

But I need to do more work with smaller knives

Going to start working more with smaller knives just to see what they can and can not do--on Mesquite.

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such a detailed answer...Very well written.
 
I lived in San An and Houston and much of what I know of bushcraft was learned on Mesquite. He is certainly blessed with a wide range of healthy hardwoods to work with. I don't prefer 5+ long blades for bushcraft, but most of mine fall within the 4.25-4.5 range which wasn't listed. A real pain in the ass is being limited to a small knife and forced to make do with sagebrush.
 
PayetteRucker said:
I lived in San An and Houston and much of what I know of bushcraft was learned on Mesquite. He is certainly blessed with a wide range of healthy hardwoods to work with. I don't prefer 5+ long blades for bushcraft, but most of mine fall within the 4.25-4.5 range which wasn't listed. A real pain in the ass is being limited to a small knife and forced to make do with sagebrush.
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I agree Bro

Have a Great Thanksgiving
 
Most bushcrafters in the UK manage everything with what you guys call a small knife. We usually use an axe or saw for the "Big Knife" tasks
It cetainly takes a lot more time and skill to learn to whittle an eating spoon or a cup with a big knife.
 
parbajtor said:
Most bushcrafters in the UK manage everything with what you guys call a small knife. We usually use an axe or saw for the "Big Knife" tasks
It cetainly takes a lot more time and skill to learn to whittle an eating spoon or a cup with a big knife.
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Good post and a prime example of the diversity within the W&SS crowd. I really don't consider myself a bushcrafter. I don't carve spoons, cups, whittle traps, feathersticks, etc... I can get by with a handful of skills and a little bit of compromise. Fish can be cooked without filleting... friction fires can be made without carved notches... traps can be fashioned without fine details. The last snowshoe hare I harvested and consumed never saw the edge of a knife. Those that have been unfortunate enough to have me tag along in the woods, would tell you that my knife skills don't get any more sophisticated than chopping, digging, prying, cutting twine and making chopsticks........ oh, and stirring my coffee. I am probably the laziest survivalist you'll ever meet.

I suppose I should elaborate on my answer to Bill's original question...

I find that using a small knife to do big blade tasks requires more skill. My answer is biased because I don't regularily use fine cutting skills... so while I would absolutely take a small blade out of its comfort zone, I would rarely need to do the same with a large blade.

Rick
 
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Dr Bill, I have really enjoyed this thread. Great question and lots of nice replies. I don't have much to add though. Personally, and only due to my own experience and environment, I only use smaller knives, ie Rat-3, FB Hiking Buddy etc. I have a FB Hunter, and love it, but it's borderline too big for my uses. I wish I had more experiences or had MADE more opportunities to use larger knives, but I just never have. My fault. I read so many neat posts here about shelter building but here in the plains, I am surrounded by corn and bean fields. There is hardly nothing to build a shelter out of without traveling for miles. It's the environment. Locally, if one were to be hiking, fishing, or car camping and have a machete hanging off their belt, they would stand out as a nut job. I often talk about going for a more minimalist weekend adventure but it would require a few hours of travel and would more than likely have to be a solo trip. So, opportunity has yet to present itself. One of these days, I'll go. I'll take lots of pictures and take plenty of notes. I WILL take a big knife and tear up some timber. But for now, the camping I can do is just a small hike from the car. When I'm trout fishing, my waders and vest only have room for a small fixed blade (an average sized fillet knife is overkill to me). And when I'm upland hunting, I am already carrying a heavy shotgun and needed ammo, I don't want to carry a heavy knife. During deer season, worse case scenario, the deer camp is only a 30 minute walk away (there is no way to get lost when the small spot. Of timber is surrounded by empty fields). I have often drooled over the big knives I see you use and test. It sure looks like fun!! But I can't break down and spend the money on something I just can't use for now.

You know what? It just occured to me that I don't even have the skill or experience to answer your original question! Sorry Doc. I blame it on my environment. But one day, mark my words, one day that will change! Until then, I'll keep on enjoying this forum.....
 
Takes more skill to use a big knife for small knife tasks, more effort to use a small knife for big knife tasks, and more time for both.
 
There are allot of super experienced woodsman chiming in here which is really outstanding as it allow the rest of to benefit from there experience. Ricks jokes about his "laziness" which might be better defined as efficiency which is born from seasoned experience not from lack of motivation the attention he gives to his craftsmanship of wilderness tools is a testimony to that. Also his large blades are sharper than most peoples carving knives..

Seriously though, I;ve experimented with this very subject over the past year by attempting to purge the middle man from my tool set up, and only using a larger blade and a folder..

on my average camping trip the blade based tasks usually involve processing dead fall oak for fire wood, and shelter poles, and other plants for bedding when needed
prepping various stages of tinder and kindling, food prep, and various cord cutting, (however most of the cordage i use has is pre-cut into selected lengths in my shelter kit, use less 550 that way) most of those types of tasks are easily done with a lager blades. including feather sticks and such. Here are some pics from various outings where I used a larer blade for most things
making sparkable tinder:
Newpics059-2.jpg

making traps
Newpics092-1.jpg

PICT0004-61.jpg

splitting hardwood
Newpics050-1.jpg


however as many know allot of the more common tasks can be done with any knife regardless of size
PICT0007-49.jpg

PICT0026-18.jpg


for most applications i use a smaller blade, simply because it attracts less attention , is widely more accepted among people encountered while in the woods, and truthfully I feel less like a rambo style survivalist that way. also having a sharp blade that is lively in the hand at quick access is extremely handy for finer tasks and utility cutting when you don;t want a large blade on your belt, or when your fingers are to cold to muck about with a folder

that being said there is always a larger blade in my bag because when the chips are down, carving a trap, cleaning a trout or making a net needle (while awesome, impressive skills and worth while skills) are not going to keep me dry or warm... that will depend on my ability to break down wood in to dry components for fire or stripping vegetation for covering or bedding for a shelter.
Now also the odds of me being in a situation like that (other than ones I have deliberately put myself in to test myself) are not only unlikely but almost impossible.. but hey we all like to pretend, that's why we're here. anyway I digress
I'll go with my original answer it takes more skill to learn how to use a large knife to do small things, but requires more energy and time to make a small knife do large things..
 
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stabman said:
Alot depends on the handle.
I've had big knives that could do it all...and I've had big knives which were only useful for chopping.
Design is where it's at.:)
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Well said, I have a NMFBM from Busse that is .25 inch thick FFG and I can do about anything with it, I have a thicker one that is a little harder to work with so the shape and thickness all play a part. I don't buy into the more skills you have the smaller knife you need, Ron Hood liked big blades, Mr Jasper, The author of Six ways in 12 ways out likes big blades too! I like big blades and to be honest if given the choice, Big blade small blade carry is my choice. I like one of my Busse NMFBM paired up with my ESEE Izula II.
 
WILLIAM.M said:
Wilderness Skills Question--


Do you feel it's harder to make a small knife do the tasks of a Larger knife
or is it harder to make a Larger knife do what smaller knives excell at??

What takes more SKILL and Time to learn???
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Like many here, I feel more comfortable using my big blades for intricate tasks then I do using my small knifes to handle big chores.

But of course that's based on my skill set, one that has been developed by using big blades for small task more then small knives for heavy duty work.


So to answer the OP's question, for me I would say it would take more time for me to develop the skills to make that small blade do it all.




Big Mike
 
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