Wilderness Skills Question--READ CAREFULLY

There are some outstanding answers here!!!!!

and I disagree with Rick as well--I do not call him Lazy as I have seen some of the areas he practices in--and a LAZY man would just stay home on the couch watching TV or Playing on the internet.

I learn a great deal from the replies to my questions and have the next one ready to be posted.

Hope you all are having a Great Thanksgiving
 
For me, the handle of the knife is as or possibly more important than the blade length.
I am much more proficient with an Ontario TAK than I am with an ESEE4 -- though they have nearly identical blades, because I can get a better grip with less hand fatigue on the TAK.
The last 2 camping trips I was on I used a 3" bladed knife almost exclusively -- but was only doing food prep, making kindling, etc... not shelter building or any similar "survival oriented" tasks.
I feel learning to safely and efficiently perform "big knife" tasks with a small knife so as to minimize the chance of damaging the small knife (or myself) is a LOT harder than learning to use a big knife to do "small knife" tasks. (food prep, kindling, dressing out small game/fish, simple carving, etc...)
 
1066vik said:
For me, the handle of the knife is as or possibly more important than the blade length.
I am much more proficient with an Ontario TAK than I am with an ESEE4 -- though they have nearly identical blades, because I can get a better grip with less hand fatigue on the TAK.
The last 2 camping trips I was on I used a 3" bladed knife almost exclusively -- but was only doing food prep, making kindling, etc... not shelter building or any similar "survival oriented" tasks.
I feel learning to safely and efficiently perform "big knife" tasks with a small knife so as to minimize the chance of damaging the small knife (or myself) is a LOT harder than learning to use a big knife to do "small knife" tasks. (food prep, kindling, dressing out small game/fish, simple carving, etc...)
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Outstanding answer!!!!!
 
I think that a big knife is more complete as tool than a small knife. Once you develop the skill set you never give up toughness for comfort.
A knife 1/8 by 4" need a hatchet or saw to give you a peace of mind and to be complete as tool. I'm a true believer in combo carrying but chips are down to one knife..I definitively will go with a big knife because ain't any substitutes for it out there.
 
this thread has been an eye opening read .. Ive often enough read the big knife vs small knife debates but never really applied it to myself , I have kinda assessed it as .. got a job to do , what do I have to do it with , ok lets get it done ... never thought of it as its a big knife , mid knife etc job ...

I am not a member of either camp , I carry large folder and a larger fixed blade is always handy . I personally believe the limit is in the head , and what you find harder to learn is only because you havent spent the time to learn it .. yet .
 
That's tough to say, over the years I have been forced to use large knives for small tasks and small knives for large tasks. I guess I'd have to say it is harder to get used to doing large tasks with a small knife. As long as the large knife has enough of a point to suit me then I'm fine with it. However If my choice was between a 3.5 - 4 inch blade with a good point and a "standard" machete with a deep sweep and little point I'd take the smaller knife in my area any day, but I don't live in a jungle. If the larger knife were a barong with a good point I'd be perfectly happy with it.
 
I rotate between small and large knives.I kinda go thru phases right now I'm in the big knife camp.three months ago I was in the small knife camp.
I love the size of 4-5.5 inch they fit on your belt easily and can be carried comfortably,tends to be carried more due to size.My pea brain tends to carry small blades during the summer and big blades during the winter due to several things,Time it's faster to process wood (hacking,splitting,building shelter) with a big blade I can do both but to me it's easier to do the bigger tasks with less work/time.I winter camp in shelters I don't do a lot "of woodcraft" carving.I think it takes more skill/time to learn to use small knife for big knife tasks (splitting,batoning,hacking) but equally it takes skill/time to learn to use a big knife for small knife tasks (carving,whittling,skinning)
It boils down to what you are comfortable with,what you have on you,and how much time you have to do the tasks.

Just my thoughts
 
WILLIAM.M said:
There are some outstanding answers here!!!!!

and I disagree with Rick as well--I do not call him Lazy as I have seen some of the areas he practices in--and a LAZY man would just stay home on the couch watching TV or Playing on the internet.

I learn a great deal from the replies to my questions and have the next one ready to be posted.

Hope you all are having a Great Thanksgiving
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Being 'Lazy' in outdoor sports is actually quite a compliment. In every sport I've partaken in, people that are 'lazy' and successful are dubbed that way because they have a level of finesse that allows them to work alot less hard to accomplish the same tasks. Being 'lazy' is about the best compliment you can give a river runner, because it means they have an ability to read the water and know how to control their vessel with skill, so as with a few correcting strokes the current will do 99% of the work. Thor Hushovd called himself a "lazy old man" when at the age of 33, he spent 8 days in the yellow jersey in this year's Tour De France. Being 'lazy' and succeeding simply refers to one's ability to reduce the amount of hard labor because they know how to get the job done without wasting time, effort and money, usually through experience in learning the hard way. It's a measurement of wisdom and not inability or lack of will.
 
During my time in the military i Have trained in and trained others to survive in every climate/biome on the planet. During my training we carried a small axe,standard issue pilot survival knife, and the folding U.S. or DEMO knife.All were needed to do the volume of work we had to do, however we did far and above what was needed to just survive.Later in my career when i was an instructor and free to carry what i pleased it was a larger knife and the demo knife as after much trial and error they became my preferred set.If i had only one, it would be a large knife
(7"fixed blade or my kukri)...knowing that everything is a compromise.My reason is fire....I am a pyro and feel there are few things a giant fire cant fix. But seriously... in every emergency situation i have encountered,a large knife was the one that did the quick and dirty work that saved the day.And when the ammo is gone...i feel a bit underwhelmed with only a pocket knife.
What my small blades did teach me and make me appreciate are....Technique, proper wood selection,care and use.
Having only the rat tail tang pilot survival knife to baton thru a tree makes you very good at judging your wood. It cracks me up when i see a video of someone who broke their giant knife trying to beat it thru a 10" bolt of wood with knots everywhere....and they complain in disbelief about the knife....
A giant knife gives you no more bush skill than a fire extinguisher makes you a fireman,or a rifle makes you a soldier.
Stop watching videos of what kind of cinder blocks a knife cant chop thru and go into the field and use your knives...all sizes, and appreciate how much they can do. For me it will be a Ranger RD7.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Being 'Lazy' in outdoor sports is actually quite a compliment. In every sport I've partaken in, people that are 'lazy' and successful are dubbed that way because they have a level of finesse that allows them to work alot less hard to accomplish the same tasks. Being 'lazy' is about the best compliment you can give a river runner, because it means they have an ability to read the water and know how to control their vessel with skill, so as with a few correcting strokes the current will do 99% of the work. Thor Hushovd called himself a "lazy old man" when at the age of 33, he spent 8 days in the yellow jersey in this year's Tour De France. Being 'lazy' and succeeding simply refers to one's ability to reduce the amount of hard labor because they know how to get the job done without wasting time, effort and money, usually through experience in learning the hard way. It's a measurement of wisdom and not inability or lack of will.
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Agree 100%. Knowing what NOT to do can also give the illusion of being lazy. I'm not as experienced as Rick but there are times when people ask me what I would choose to chop this or that and I have to ask, "Why am I chopping it?" Occasionally it's for a specific task that makes sense. Usually though it's for a scenario that has a low probability of happening and sometimes there is no purpose other than for the sake of chopping itself. A wise woodsman won't go around chopping for the sake of chopping. Unless of course that's their hobby and they enjoy it.
 
+1 for Hushovd.. he rode a great tour.

Now that i`ve had coffee and re-read what you were actually asking for... here is my answer and reasons.
I prefer a large knife for the multitude of tasks and environments they have served me in. (try cutting a snow block for an igloo with a pilot survival knife)
I can limb trees with less effort
i can split wood with less effort
i can still make a big ugly spoon or a cup (even with a small blade everything i make is unrefined and caveman clunky looking)
i can strike the ferro rod
i can make feather sticks (clunky,ugly,functional ones)
For me the finer detailed tasks may take longer,but they are also the tasks i can do around a fire after the more energy and labor intensive tasks are done, and done easier because of the blade size.

I start people with a small knife and work up to larger ones in bushcraft.They learn control and dexterity, and respect for the knife. Especially after cutting themselves.
When they move to an axe or large knife they appreciate the advantages and disadvantages, and see it as a tool...no "wow factor" from size.
Everyone wants to have a big knife for the "wow factor" but it takes time to learn and appreciate the differences in operating what is just another tool.Just look at you tube and all the videos of people chopping the living crap out of anything they can find...just because the knife is big.(hey man..check out my new "umptisquat extreme" i chopped my friggin house in half...how cool.My other knives cant chop my house in half...they must suck) Cracks me up......
Like a knuckle dragging caveman i cherished every tool i was allowed to use in my training and used the crap out of them, and cared for them, they were inspected daily by our Cadre, Knives sharp, clean no rust ETC. My pilot knife looked like a boomerang from batoning crappy, knotty wood.But it still worked and i learned to pick better wood for my situation. The other option was make your own or do without, and i cant flint knap very well...
I once read somewhere and believe in developing and mastering the first weapon, Ourselves.
 
pitdog said:
I'd have to say some it is harder to do a small knife's work with a large knife.Filleting fish or carving spoons/trap triggers would be a PITA if not next to impossible with a 1/4" prybar.

I really struggle to justify the need for any knife with a blade over 4" or 5". I sometimes see a big knife and think " Wow that would make a nice camp knife !" but for doing what ??? If I was wild camping and making a shelter then an axe is far more efficient than a large knife, same goes for splitting wood for the camp fire.
I guess it's really the fun factor in swinging large knives but in reality a med knife+axe and/or folding saw are far more efficient tools, in fact even just a med knife and folding saw can get more or less anything done.
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I basicly agree with your main points. And know that running a bigger knife is less practical. But I'm a big blade person and always have been. There is practicality, and, or, the fun factor for me. I just get a lot more fun out of using big blades. I could basicly go for the rest of my life with a BK-2, but jeez, I do love swinging a machette etc.
:)
 
RescueRiley said:
I was reading some article dealing with scattered tribes of the dwindling hunter gatherer societies that are around these days.. and something that struck me was that the 2 things that are aalmost unanimously carried regardless of location was a metal pot, and a large working blade (read as machete, parang, etc. Leuku, butcher knife)
these are the folks who are the real experts...
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Exactly, and that was what the Indians and fur traders did up here in Canada for hundreds of years. But the Indians that I was around in the far north just grab a chain saw these days and couldn't care less about what size knife you have. They Carry an axe on the snowmobile as a saw back up. Or use the axe as an ice chopper\tester in early freeze up while crossing on snowmobiles. Times change I suppose.
 
no blade is perfect, or even adequate for all tasks. If you have to pick, then decide on which will save your life, and which is a convenience.

Personally, I carry several, just in case. :D
 
This thread makes me think we need an "out of your knife size comfort zone challenge" or something like that.

We could take self-professed small knife people and make them use large knives.

We could take self-professed large knife people and make them use small knives.

We could have a task list and post the results.

-Stan
 
stanley_white said:
This thread makes me think we need an "out of your knife size comfort zone challenge" or something like that.
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Ha!:thumbup:

We need to change the name for this subforum to W&SS&C..... (and Challenges).


We should hold a challenge to see who can come up the best idea for the next challenge!:D
 
Rick Marchand said:
Ha!:thumbup:

We need to change the name for this subforum to W&SS&C..... (and Challenges).


We should hold a challenge to see who can come up the best idea for the next challenge!:D
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I suggest a challenge-suggestion challenge subforum, to more easily sort through the suggested challenges :cool:
 
Great first posts, SERE 9601. Welcome to the forum!

It's interesting to learn that within your training you have to take measures to change your students' mindset about large knives to avoid the "wow factor." I also agree with your approach to make the labor intensive work easier by using a larger knife for wood gathering and splitting and then have time and energy to work through the finer chores with a less than ideal, but functional tool.

You also hit on a practical issue that I see in my own technique, but for whatever reason don't work to resolve - that's choice of wood. It never fails that I'll find the "perfect" standing dead only to realize that it's pacific yew while splitting it. The realization comes early as I begin to have trouble batonning through it. But I'm stubborn and decide that I'm pot-committed (to use a poker reference). I should just set it aside until after I have a fire going, but it just never works that way.

:D
 
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