Winkler belt knife fails strength tests (GREAT response by Winkler)

Discussion in 'Knife Reviews & Testing' started by Twindog, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. Esav Benyamin

    Esav Benyamin MidniteSuperMod

    Apr 6, 2000
    I sent Dan Winkler an email with the link to this thread.
    He is responsive to questions or problems with his knives.
     
  2. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    I purchased it here secondhand from someone the forum. The seller is a really good person, and the knife was exactly as described. I don't have any issue with the seller.

    This isn't a custom Winkler knife -- the one's he makes himself. I'm sure his custom knives are as good as their reputation.

    I paid $305. It wasn't new.
     
  3. straightwalls

    straightwalls

    511
    Mar 9, 2012
    Thank you for the response, just curious about it is all, interesting case here and I hope it is resolved and you are not out your 305 bones.
     
  4. bluntcut

    bluntcut KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2012
    Just stating facts(emotionless ;)) - this blade is quite ductile, thus lacks of both strength & toughness. Whenever you see a blade easily bend with very a little of elasticity/spring, usually mean high ferrite & low martensite, aka hardening and or over heated tempering or massive RA% (for high alloy steels) problem.
     
  5. bladeninja

    bladeninja

    563
    Mar 26, 2014
    This is an authentic Winkler II Belt Knife in Micarta. See the difference? I believe you got a fake.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. amflud

    amflud Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2009
    The older WK II Belt Knives I've seen have the rounded ricasso like the one belonging to the OP.
     
  7. bodog

    bodog Banned BANNED

    Dec 15, 2013

    I can't speak to what happened to that knife. It looks like it wasn't heat treated at all. Here's a knife that was way less than 300 bucks:

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1305088-ZT-0180-Hard-Use


    And I don't know how much a knife from Bluntcut Metalworks costs, but I bet it's less than 300:

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1309186-Cutting-nail-(size-16d)-test

    And both of those knives handle that sort of testing with flying colors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  8. DWinkler

    DWinkler

    218
    Nov 7, 2005
    Twindog,

    Wow! what a piece of crap! First let me say if you will send me your address I'll send you a new knife. Feel free to test it too. ( I would prefer you not cut a nail, that seems a little extreme and I don't really intend this model to cut steel. If you need to cut steel I make a Rescue axe designed to cut sheet metal that would probably hold up.)

    About the time that knife was made was when I implemented some new inspection and testing procedures. As with that knife, we had a few come through with similar problems. This came from some issues with heat treating. That knife was most likely made from 52-100. I found out that this particular batch needed to soak in the high temp salt for no less than 1 full hour. We had only been going for about 15 min at heat and a full run of about 10 knives came out soft. I thought we had gotten them all but I guess not. Basically you tested a knife that had an improper heat treat.

    We make more knives that I can possibly do all myself. It also has taken a while to get the guy's to a point that they can recognize the possible problems that can arise that are not visual. Each blade is now checked after heat treating and before the handle goes on to assure it is up to standards. There may be one that slips through now and then but it is rare. Humans make mistakes but we are trying to eliminate all the problems we can. However when one does come up we will take care of the problem.

    Daniel
     
    highestpoint, ikkyo and Riz! like this.
  9. Cobalt

    Cobalt Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    BAd HT. No doubt about it. It would be interesting to have an Rc test done near the edge. I bet it is in the 40's.
     
  10. LX_Emergency

    LX_Emergency KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jun 28, 2007
    Well there's your answer. Can't ask for much more than that. :)
     
  11. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004

    Thanks, Daniel.

    That would explain it. I don't cut nails with my knives, I just did it in this case because the knife was already shot. It's a beautiful knife to handle. The design is awesome. I liked it right away. But I could tell that the steel was off, which is why I began, gently at first, to see if my intuition was correct.

    I appreciate your kind offer.
     
  12. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    Nice. That looked so crazy soft it was like something from an alternate reality.

    I love handmade stuff vs. mass produced and I've seen human imperfections creep in before. Sometime they add character and other times it's a disaster.

    Really glad to see you'll be getting a proper example of this knife.
     
  13. straightwalls

    straightwalls

    511
    Mar 9, 2012
    Attractive and very well designed knife IMO, I love the scalloped scales too. Happy endings are great.
     
  14. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    Daniel Winkler already contacted me and is sending a replacement.

    I actually didn't ask for or expect this service because it was a secondhand knife. Nice to run into a knife maker who stands behind his work, no matter what.
     
    Lookout and highestpoint like this.
  15. bodog

    bodog Banned BANNED

    Dec 15, 2013
    Lol, I like that the maker is able to call a spade a spade and is willing to stand behind his product. Sometimes things don't go right. It happens.
     
  16. knife chop

    knife chop

    816
    Feb 11, 2014
    Mr. Winkler,

    I don't know if you got my emails regarding this in the past as I've never gotten a response from you. basically, based on your pricing I have an issue you how your knives are sharpened. for $350 a knife I expect an edge better than this. notice how the edge curves down towards the plunge? theis makes that part of the knife virtually impossible and I'd have to take out a lot of material just to straighten it up. This is off topic but I figured I'll post this since my emails were unanswered.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. qhunteraz

    qhunteraz

    81
    Jan 16, 2014
    I am thoroughly impressed , I just recently bought my first Winkler tad edition belt knife, and after seeing this I was a little bit worried. But Daniel just made me a happy and soon to be a multiple Winkler knives buyer, I have been looking to get a knife for each of my kids as they graduate high school , something that will last a life time and is made with care and integrity. And I believe I have now found that knife maker.
    Well done Sir.
     
  18. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007
    Great response by the maker. Backing up a production knife. 52100 should make a fantastic tool.
     
  19. DAVE_M

    DAVE_M

    Jun 16, 2010
    I'm unsure if you own a Winkler and are just using someone else's photos for reference, or if you are just complaining.
     
  20. knife chop

    knife chop

    816
    Feb 11, 2014
    I did use someone's photo for reference and I owned and sold a Winkler belt knife at some point with the same exact issue.
     

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