Wish GEC and Case Used Modern Steel

I like it as it is right now.

The 1095 is a great steel, good heat treatment is needed. Stainless steels like 420, 420HC and even 440A are great, good heat treatment needed (look at the old Schrade+ knives).

For sure, there were some stainless between like AUS8 (Al Mar) and 440C (GEC) and a properly done HT.

I avoid that "High-End-Steels" like S90V and some steels like ELMAX or whatever. I don´t want to buy new sharping equipment just to get an edge to a tool. I prefer a simple carbon steel (1095, C75 or whatever) and a ceramic coffee mug and a leather belt and the knife is like a razor. I remember some months ago, the edge on a Queen Gunstock Jack in D2 drove nuts as I couldn´t get any edge on that darn blade. Later on I decided to get some new diamond stones for that.... :eek:

So for me - I´m happy now as it is
 
Humppa said:
I remember some months ago, the edge on a Queen Gunstock Jack in D2 drove nuts as I couldn´t get any edge on that darn blade. Later on I decided to get some new diamond stones for that.... :eek:
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I came a click away from getting the EDC Forums exclusive Queen Stockman in D2 before I said to myself, when this thing comes dull as a brick wall, and it definitely will, am I going to want to deal with it? Ultimately, I decided it wasn't.
 
I do wish they would use more D2, CPM 154, etc.

I enjoy GEC'S 1095. I have not yet owned their stainless.

I do have an S&M grandad Barlow in Ats34, which has acquitted it's self nicely in daily use. I have a custom slip joint in CPM 154 (or it might be 154cm). It seems to hold an edge great

My Queen D2 is great.

I would really enjoy GEC'S treatment of a D2 slip joint. Their better edges and thinner grinds would really tickle my fancy.
 
Last edited:
Don´t get me wrong. Queen´s D2 is a amazing steel, when there is an edge. When it is like a butter knife it is a pain and hardly the regular elbow grease will help there a lot. I like Queen using D2 as it keeps an edge so long. But actual reprofiling this very steel is hard, indeed.
 
Hope I don't bore everybody with this story.

I'm a machinist. Some time ago I had a little "accident" while running my machine and drilled a hole too deep, so deep that the tool holder went into the aluminum part 1/8" inch or so.

It melted the part into the holder's collet and filled all the slits up with gummy aluminum.

ER16%20collet.JPG


If I went to my manager and told him I had ruined a $100 collet it would not be the end of the world but I would prefer to not. I took out my Case Sodbuster and cleaned each slit
by tapping my knife lightly into it with a hammer. Then I scraped the excess off with the spine.

This is not the norm, but "it" happens. Once I had things running smoothly again I pulled out some emery cloth and had the knife good as new pretty quickly.

It was the best tool for the job, also the one I had in my pocket.

The steel was plenty good and plenty hard, but not too hard and if I had broken it it would not have been the end of the world.

So there's that.
 
Not sure about "modern", but I wish for more traditionals in D2 or stainless steels.
Not necessarily high end steels though. Properly heat treated 12c27 works great for me, as CPM-154, and others.
I like carbon steel but I prefer stainless. Yet, as Charlie said, the slipjoint market is mostly 1095 oriented and that's fine for me.

Fausto
:cool:
 
jswr450 said:
Am I the only one that wishes GEC, Case and the other slip joint makers used more modern steels for their knives? I like Queen's D2 quite a bit, but what about something even more premium?

Maybe I'm wrong and there are already slip joints made from super premium steels from the production knife makers.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you've begun to notice that the crowd that frequents this forum far and away prefers the old school carbon steels.

The majority of production knife manufacturers just don't have the equipment or a good reason to make what you're looking for. The higher end ss is much harder to work and costlier to work with.

I like what some call the higher end stainless myself. if you keep your eye open you'll find that Canal Street, Schatt & Morgan and Case (especially their Case/Bose yearly knives) offer some in 440C, D2 (almost ss), ATS-34, 154CM etc. All fine steels, although maybe not super.

You can save up 400-500 bucks (or a lot more if you can afford it) for a fine hand made knife in any steel you want. That's what I do. There are plenty of knife makers, some of the best post here, that would be happy to make you a knife your grand kids will treasure long after you are gone.
 
I used to be more of a steel snob, and traditionals have helped in this regard, but I still like premium steels, especially CPM variety. My Gladiator Moose from Northwoods knives is a beauty in CPMS60V (formerly CPM440v). Produced by GEC if I'm not mistaken, and also if a steel never to be used again by GEC, sadly. Even though this knife has premium, carbide filled steel it sharpens very well on Spyderco ceramic stones, as well as diamonds- which are what I use anyways. Very thin precise grinds are to be complimented for ease of re-sharpening. I feel that a lot of fear toward using modern premium steels are a result of traditional folder companies slacking off and shipping knives with unuseable edges, making the thought of profiling a new knife quite a chore- look at basically every bodies experience with Queen D2 butter knives. I really appreciate when a company utilizes a modern steel, just as I can appreciate companies maintaining tradition. Nothing wrong with voicing wishes. I for one wish more Damascus was used! We demand premium handle materials in many cases, I see no reason why premium steels should not be asked for as well.

Here is a picture of my more premium steel slipjoints- CPM/ATS-34/154CM/Damascus- funny, most with my beloved half stop!!
D7B243AC-CEC7-4762-8319-7E3CE19D2D77.jpg



I'm pretty sure I have other John Lloyd knives in CPM-154, but I wasn't told what steel was specific to each knife, and it really didn't matter much to me anyways, as I trust the major companies to make a good useable knife regardless, which is why the total package is more important than any single feature! I'll still carry this knife following the Gladiator, and I have doubts that it even has hardened steel, but still cuts twine/cardboard and grapefruit well enough to get into scrubs on occasion!
5CC6D02B-A2CB-40D0-8B05-0E072FB7A03B.jpg
 
jswr450 said:
Am I the only one that wishes GEC, Case and the other slip joint makers used more modern steels for their knives? I like Queen's D2 quite a bit, but what about something even more premium?
Maybe I'm wrong and there are already slip joints made from super premium steels from the production knife makers.
Click to expand...

You may not be alone in your desire, but you are significantly in the minority.

Knives Ship Free had some traditionals made up in CPM S60V. They were very expensive and took a LONG time to sell.

The "super alloys" are so much more difficult and expensive to machine, and there is so much more machining required for a traditional knife compared to a modern design, that the cost goes way, way up if the blades are "super alloy". Personally, I'm not willing to pay a couple of hundred dollars for a pocket knife made with super steel. If I have a job which requires super steel performance, I'll carry a one-hander for it.

Personally, I'm happy enough with 440C.
 
I for one would like to see some higher end stainless steels in GEC knives. BG-42 and D2 would be great.

My two favorite non GEC knives are my Buck 301 in BG-42 and my Canal Street pinch in D2.
 
At 63 I've used 1095, 440A, 420HC, CV and True Sharp, granted they are easy to sharpen on almost anything and I have used the top of a car window once. Although until I found this forum a few years ago, I had never heard of using a coffee cup and no way would I use emery cloth.

Myself I'd rather touch up an edge once a week than every night or every month instead of every week. Depending on your usage.

I think the mistake people make when they do buy a steel like D2 is not doing their research.
When I ordered my first knife in D2, I placed another order for a KME guided diamond system and a 100 grit stone to go with it.

Actually re-profiling D2 steel with a 100 grit diamond is not that hard, then working up through 300, 600 & 1500 goes pretty fast. Even Queen's famous butter knife edge will go fast. And touching it up with the 1500 goes quickly. Keep it wet with some Rem oil so the diamonds don't load up and you'll have no problems.

I see why so many like 1095 but it is not for everybody, even though it is the most popular traditional steel. 440C, CPM154, S30V & D2 are good steels and not super expensive. For you patina lovers D2 will pick up a blue tint over time just eat lots of apples.
 
I think this thread kinda drifted off the OP's original statement of desiring the production traditional companies to offer their wares in the newer steels. I won't say better steels cause as seen in this thread that's an ongoing discussion without end. ;)

And the question was answered as each company has their game plan and market niche which works for them. And some, such as Case, have the occasional sprint run in more expensive steels. And traditionals can be found in newer steels, but perhaps just not in the wide variety of patterns as carbon steel offerings. I'm curious though as to at what point does a steel stop being called a new steel. ATS34 for instance has been around quite along time now.

So one of the great things about our forum here is that there's room for everybody and their favorites.

I did want to say though I'm sometimes at a loss concerning the comments that the newer steels are so hard to sharpen and maintain, etc. I myself mostly like my pocket knives made with ATS34, CPM154, etc., andI've been using the same Spyderco Sharpmaker for more years than I can recall and have never had an issue sharpening any steel to a very good edge. EXCEPT, D2. The knives I get with that I always seem to have to fight with initially to get them sharp, but then after that, maintenance is about the same as the other stuff. That D2 is hard. And a Sharpmaker isn't too expensive and lasts forever. I did have to buy a set of the diamond sleeves for the dang D2 to make starting quicker. Lol. But it just takes a minute or two on the fine stones to get the edge touched up on the stsinless blades. Maybe strop a little. For me, the newer steel edges need less maintenance than a carbon blade. That's just me.

I also have, use, and collect traditionals in the carbon flavor too. I generally look first at the knife itself, it's pattern and fit & finish, to see if I like it, rather than the steel first. The Pony Jack model in 1095 is one of my favorites. And I do appreciate the look of a well loved easy open. And I also appreciate a nice Dr. T knife in CPM154. :)

Anyway - thanks for listening. I drifted off the OP too didn't I? Lol.

Joe
 
This is not the correct forum for detailed discussion on knife steel.
But I cannot envision a need for a pocket knife with a 3V blade. 3V is used for blades requiring toughness. I can't see it as a blade steel on a traditional pocket knife. Normally, for a pocket knife, one might be interested in superior edge retention. For edge retention, I made a chart here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...and-S30V-edge-retention?p=8908599#post8908599

440C is good enough because it gets you into the land of carbides without adding too much to the cost of the knife. Though there is still an increase in the cost of the knife due to the added costs of machining 440C compared to simple carbon steel or O1.
 
I would be happy if Case upgraded their SS to 440C, or at least raised the hardness of their current SS up to 58 RC. But even as it is, I've never had any problems with it.

I personally don't see the need for a 'super-steel' traditional slipjoint. I won't pay over $100 for a traditional pocketknife. As knarfeng already stated, if I need a 'super-steel' blade, I have plenty of one-handers in various modern steels I can use for the task.

Jim
 
No, I'm glad that Case, GEC/Northwoods use the old 1095 and CV. I actually don't like D2 and some of the other 'higher' end steels. I use my pocket knife as a pocket knife, small cutting jobs that pop up every day. So if I notice the blade needs a bit of a touchup, I want to be able to do that in just a minute or two wherever I happen to be. When it comes time to sharpen my pocket knife, I absolutely do not want to have to sit down with gizmos and diamond stones and make a project out of it. The nearest coffee mug or smooth stone should do.

1095 and CV is perfect for my pocket knife use. I hate to admit it, but if GEC started to use the higher end steels, I'd probably avoid them and not buy any of the knives with it.
 
knarfeng said:
This is not the correct forum for detailed discussion on knife steel.
But I cannot envision a need for a pocket knife with a 3V blade. 3V is used for blades requiring toughness. I can't see it as a blade steel on a traditional pocket knife. Normally, for a pocket knife, one might be interested in superior edge retention. For edge retention, I made a chart here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...and-S30V-edge-retention?p=8908599#post8908599

440C is good enough because it gets you into the land of carbides without adding too much to the cost of the knife. Though there is still an increase in the cost of the knife due to the added costs of machining 440C compared to simple carbon steel or O1.
Click to expand...

Frank, I appreciate the boundary issues and the links. My curiosity about 3v is in the context of "hard use" larger tradtionals like the big Opinels, Sodbusters and maybe the big stockmen. I've dented up Opinels and some Buck lockbacks 420HC.

My understanding is the small carbide steels like 420HC and 12C27 (and 1095) are tougher than large carbide steels like 440C, so if I could get the toughness of the fine grained steels and better abrasion resistance of 440C (or D2) in a large harduse traditional, that would be very interesting/
 
Peregrin said:
I'm sure you've begun to notice that the crowd that frequents this forum far and away prefers the old school carbon steels.

The majority of production knife manufacturers just don't have the equipment or a good reason to make what you're looking for. The higher end ss is much harder to work and costlier to work with.

I like what some call the higher end stainless myself. if you keep your eye open you'll find that Canal Street, Schatt & Morgan and Case (especially their Case/Bose yearly knives) offer some in 440C, D2 (almost ss), ATS-34, 154CM etc. All fine steels, although maybe not super.
Click to expand...

Bold text by me. Gary for the win!

Why invest more money into research, more money into manufacturing, more money into actual machinery, more money into training, and on a on to make a product when you can use the same materials and techniques (maybe machines, too!) that have been used for over 100 years and get a premium price? No sound business plan would allow it. 1095 is a good utility steel with decades of proven worth behind it that works well enough to keep folks happy, so why change?

And there simply isn't a need for change in GEC's market. The devotees of simple carbon are unbending in their allegiance to GEC and its use of simple carbon steels, and even out of business makers that used 1095 and other carbon steels. That being said, I would bet that if the folks at GEC could double their business by switching to something more modern in the steel department, they might just be game.

Like Gary, I don't think of any of the steels he listed as "super steels". Around Bladeforums, the term "super steels" seem to be most often a pejorative term used when some disagrees with the use or preference of some steel or another. All the steels listed by Gary have been around so long and used so much that I personally wouldn't consider them "super steels" either, but still good knife steels.

Robert
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top