-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Wondering....
- Thread starter justjed
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2012
- Messages
- 3,610
I too find the FinF references to 'weapon' a bit cringe worthy, when someone is making an obvious tool like a camp knife.
In accord with NZ laws, I do not have any blade that is 'primarily designed for stabbing as opposed to cutting'. I only have cutting tools.
To say they could be used as weapons is right up there with saying I can use my vehicle as a weapon. A statement of the obvious that is so vague as to be meaningless.
Fortunately rural NZ by and large doesn't blink an eye at a folding knife in use. I wonder how long it will stay like that though.
I mean, about 30 years ago I could walk along the main road to a neighboring farm with a .22 slung over my shoulder, no prob. Trying that now would get a rapid police attention and severe repercussions.
In accord with NZ laws, I do not have any blade that is 'primarily designed for stabbing as opposed to cutting'. I only have cutting tools.
To say they could be used as weapons is right up there with saying I can use my vehicle as a weapon. A statement of the obvious that is so vague as to be meaningless.
Fortunately rural NZ by and large doesn't blink an eye at a folding knife in use. I wonder how long it will stay like that though.
I mean, about 30 years ago I could walk along the main road to a neighboring farm with a .22 slung over my shoulder, no prob. Trying that now would get a rapid police attention and severe repercussions.
The knife may be man's oldest tool.
And in the Stone Age it probably wasn't
Designed as some mere food prep utensil first
As it was initially conceived as a
Game changing take down tool.
The advent of the had knife ensured
the survival of the species.
And throughout history, having a knife
meant having a better chance
At surviving the harshest of times.
So yeah, whilst the importance
Of carrying the knife may have taken a back seat
To civility over the ages;
We haven't quite gotten over the long dark history
Of the edged tool, which in some nasty tempered hands
Becomes a much feared weapon.
I figure its a genetic memory ingrained
In the human species to fear and respect
The primordial knife and it's raw qualities.
And in the Stone Age it probably wasn't
Designed as some mere food prep utensil first
As it was initially conceived as a
Game changing take down tool.
The advent of the had knife ensured
the survival of the species.
And throughout history, having a knife
meant having a better chance
At surviving the harshest of times.
So yeah, whilst the importance
Of carrying the knife may have taken a back seat
To civility over the ages;
We haven't quite gotten over the long dark history
Of the edged tool, which in some nasty tempered hands
Becomes a much feared weapon.
I figure its a genetic memory ingrained
In the human species to fear and respect
The primordial knife and it's raw qualities.
- Joined
- May 13, 2015
- Messages
- 841
Hi. As far as I am concerned and based on my experiences around here, I think this is sadly true and my analysis about the reasons why this happens more and more, is connected to 3 main issues/areas:
- In modern days urban/working environment, the need to use a pocket knives has been drastically reduced. In the cities, basically no task requires anymore one carries his/her own knife. Food and commodities containers have been developed in a way one can open almost all of them with bare hands. Knives are provided by companies at workplaces (e.g. box cutters, specialty blades, etc.) following strict workers safety rules. Restaurants, pubs, etc. provide customers with cutlery when there’s the need to cut something; note an increasing number of dishes do not require any cutting (think about the whole Asian cuisine). The die-hard users are today, here, confined to rural environments (ranchers, growers, farmers, etc.)
- An increasing number of crimes, robberies and even terrorist attacks are carried out using knives or cutting tools of sorts. Media, as usual, put a lot of emphasis on this and now the general public is rather scared. Knives are easily available and cheap tools. They can be bought, without any license, in any supermarket. They do not need any special training to be used effectively on people caught by surprise, they are very “intuitive”, so to say, contrary to firearms, where at least a basic training is needed to make them work and which possession and carry is highly restricted and regulated .
- Context is everything. No one is scared when going to the butcher to get a couple of freshly chopped ribs or T-bone steaks. No one is scared when, on the trails, we meet campers starting up a fire, chopping down some wood, filleting a trout, dressing a deer or pointing pegs for a tent/tarp. No one freaks out when builders, plumbers, roofers, display a Mora or such hanging from their work belts during their lunch break. A very different reaction would occur if some alien unsheathe a machete in a subway station while shouting slogans or a criminal wearing a balaclava wielding a Rambo knife in a bank hall full of customers.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 15,371
Knives are a poor choice for self defense. However, if you plan on attacking someone unsuspecting, it is fine as a "weapon."
I think when people see you use them for mundane tasks, the weapon thing goes away, people become acclimated to it.
I go to a group get together Friday nights, a new thing I'm doing as a social experiment (I have major issues meeting new people, but this a game night thing so I'm ok sort of). Anyway a guy is struggling to open a bag of Reese's pieces, and I say "Here, let me open it with my knife.) A nano second later, this chick whips out a rainbow leek from her purse. My hand hadn't even made it to my pocket.
I feel that if you're going to carry a knife in a public setting like that, carry the least threatening, non tactical knife you can.
I usually carry my Manix 2 CTS-XHP Sprint with desert ironwood scales or my Matt Bailey model 2 flipper geek edition.
As soon as I get this blasted walking boot off, I'll be going to the range preparing for getting my cc permit. That way I can open that bag of Reese's pieces with my 9mm.
I think when people see you use them for mundane tasks, the weapon thing goes away, people become acclimated to it.
I go to a group get together Friday nights, a new thing I'm doing as a social experiment (I have major issues meeting new people, but this a game night thing so I'm ok sort of). Anyway a guy is struggling to open a bag of Reese's pieces, and I say "Here, let me open it with my knife.) A nano second later, this chick whips out a rainbow leek from her purse. My hand hadn't even made it to my pocket.
I feel that if you're going to carry a knife in a public setting like that, carry the least threatening, non tactical knife you can.
I usually carry my Manix 2 CTS-XHP Sprint with desert ironwood scales or my Matt Bailey model 2 flipper geek edition.
As soon as I get this blasted walking boot off, I'll be going to the range preparing for getting my cc permit. That way I can open that bag of Reese's pieces with my 9mm.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2015
- Messages
- 3,024
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2017
- Messages
- 293
I've cut, stabbed, sliced, etc thousands of things in my live. The only living thing I've ever cut was myself by accident.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 32,778
ive seen folks look at a band saw the same way theyd look at a three state mass murderer with a firearm or cutting tool.
people fear things they dont really understand. its weird to me.
I was actually expecting some flames from this thread, so I have been wearing my custom Kevlar reinforced stainless steel chain-mail underwear with Nomex lining since I posted it. Glad I can take them off, not the most comfortable things in the world, but covers my ass. 
Really, just glad to know that I am not the only one who thinks this way...
Really, just glad to know that I am not the only one who thinks this way...
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
- Messages
- 8,849
In our species as well as some of our closet relatives (chimps and bonobos), the primary threat to our well-being comes from others of our own species. So we have a natural tendency to be mildly distrustful of others until we have them mentally sorted into place in the social hierarchy relative to ourselves. When we see someone with an implement that can be used to harm us, unless we know the other person rather well, it sets off subconscious alarms that raises the observers alert level. They may just sense this as a vague unease or discomfort, but it is their hindbrain telling them to watch for danger.
If they see you cut up an apple, wipe off the knife, and put it away without any fanfare (and if the knife looks like something reasonable to cut up an apple with), they may just shrug it off and all is well in their world again. Some others, to help defuse their anxiety, will ask about it. "Why do you carry that with you?" Again, they are trying to sort out where everyone fits in the social structure so that they fully understand everything. Because something isn't quite right in their mind, and they are seeking to get back to their earlier level of comfort.
Consider two possible answers - 1- "I carry what I want to and it's really none of your business. It's legal." You have now elevated their threat level. Not only are you a bit more dangerous than they thought (being possessed of something that can cut them) but are also somewhat aggressive about it. 2 - "Oh, yeah, I like to eat apples for a healthy snack but I really don't like biting into them, so I prefer to cut them up. Plus every so often I need to open a box or something and it works so much better than trying to use my house key. Sorry if I worried you." Ok, now you are a well behaved member of the tribe and they have you sorted back into the "safe person" zone in their mind. You have even apologized for your (completely harmless) action so have shown the proper social behavior which is picked up on as mild deference (which we call "politeness").
A lot about my hypothetical scenario depends on how well the person knows you, and whatever else about you registers on their radar. Sometimes it can be someone who knows you well, and you do something unexpected like opening a 4" blade assisted opener that they didn't know you carried. Now their brain has to re-evaluate you, and they may be shocked because you are no longer who they thought you were (in their internal social structure) so they may be even more critical as they try to make you fit back into the slot they had you in. "You shouldn't carry something like that. It's illegal." I.e,, don't be this new person, go back to the one I thought you were.
I have no background in psychology so these are just some of my internal musings about why people react to some things negatively that you would otherwise think should not concern them at all.
If they see you cut up an apple, wipe off the knife, and put it away without any fanfare (and if the knife looks like something reasonable to cut up an apple with), they may just shrug it off and all is well in their world again. Some others, to help defuse their anxiety, will ask about it. "Why do you carry that with you?" Again, they are trying to sort out where everyone fits in the social structure so that they fully understand everything. Because something isn't quite right in their mind, and they are seeking to get back to their earlier level of comfort.
Consider two possible answers - 1- "I carry what I want to and it's really none of your business. It's legal." You have now elevated their threat level. Not only are you a bit more dangerous than they thought (being possessed of something that can cut them) but are also somewhat aggressive about it. 2 - "Oh, yeah, I like to eat apples for a healthy snack but I really don't like biting into them, so I prefer to cut them up. Plus every so often I need to open a box or something and it works so much better than trying to use my house key. Sorry if I worried you." Ok, now you are a well behaved member of the tribe and they have you sorted back into the "safe person" zone in their mind. You have even apologized for your (completely harmless) action so have shown the proper social behavior which is picked up on as mild deference (which we call "politeness").
A lot about my hypothetical scenario depends on how well the person knows you, and whatever else about you registers on their radar. Sometimes it can be someone who knows you well, and you do something unexpected like opening a 4" blade assisted opener that they didn't know you carried. Now their brain has to re-evaluate you, and they may be shocked because you are no longer who they thought you were (in their internal social structure) so they may be even more critical as they try to make you fit back into the slot they had you in. "You shouldn't carry something like that. It's illegal." I.e,, don't be this new person, go back to the one I thought you were.
I have no background in psychology so these are just some of my internal musings about why people react to some things negatively that you would otherwise think should not concern them at all.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,191
You can blame all sorts of people for this problem. First, should be the media/news. Second could easily be our elected officials. Third, the knife industry, itself. Just look at some of the designs that are offered for sale. And, the marketing does really not help any. Fourth, I would have to say that "Sheeple" are always going to be a problem.
Then we have ourselves to blame. Guns and knives are tools, first. They are only "weapons" when used as such. Yet, as gun and knife owners, we jumped on the "weapons" band wagon years ago when we started using the term ourselves. When I was younger, guns were just that, guns. Shotguns were called shotguns. Handguns were called handguns, revolvers or pistols. Sometimes you would hear the term "sidearm" used for a handgun but not often. Rifles were "deer" or "hunting" rifles. Maybe they were called by their caliber, brand or model but, never, NEVER called a weapon.
The only exceptions to this were the military and maybe some law enforcement. But, the media started using the term weapon and as gun owners, we let them do it. Not only did we let them, we helped them along by using the term ourselves. Back then it sounded kind of cool and exciting. It was only a mater of time before the term "weapon" would bleed over into knife ownership. Now the term is used against us.
The term "weapon" can be easily defined as anything used in an offensive or defensive manner. Anything. But, our news media and politicians both know that most people will only look at the offensive side of the term. Because most people ignore the "defensive" or "positive" side of the term, we, as knife and gun owners, re-enforce negative aspects of the term "weapon" every time we use it in print, online or with people we don't know.
Then we have ourselves to blame. Guns and knives are tools, first. They are only "weapons" when used as such. Yet, as gun and knife owners, we jumped on the "weapons" band wagon years ago when we started using the term ourselves. When I was younger, guns were just that, guns. Shotguns were called shotguns. Handguns were called handguns, revolvers or pistols. Sometimes you would hear the term "sidearm" used for a handgun but not often. Rifles were "deer" or "hunting" rifles. Maybe they were called by their caliber, brand or model but, never, NEVER called a weapon.
The only exceptions to this were the military and maybe some law enforcement. But, the media started using the term weapon and as gun owners, we let them do it. Not only did we let them, we helped them along by using the term ourselves. Back then it sounded kind of cool and exciting. It was only a mater of time before the term "weapon" would bleed over into knife ownership. Now the term is used against us.
The term "weapon" can be easily defined as anything used in an offensive or defensive manner. Anything. But, our news media and politicians both know that most people will only look at the offensive side of the term. Because most people ignore the "defensive" or "positive" side of the term, we, as knife and gun owners, re-enforce negative aspects of the term "weapon" every time we use it in print, online or with people we don't know.
palonej
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2015
- Messages
- 14,580
Sheeple will ALWAYS be the problem. It's like they live their lives afraid of everything they don't understand.
Rather than attempt understanding, they scream for another law to ban what scares them.
I love high end air rifles. Most of mine are at around 13 fpe.......177 cal pellet traveling at ~ 900 fps.
I used to shoot in my back yard.....wide open field about 200 yards out.
Had a neighbor call 911 because she told the police we were shooting 'high powered rifles'......her words.
5 cops ran into the yard with guns drawn.
Long story short, we no longer shoot BB guns in the yard, and my neighbor can rest easy.
Nauseating.
Rather than attempt understanding, they scream for another law to ban what scares them.
I love high end air rifles. Most of mine are at around 13 fpe.......177 cal pellet traveling at ~ 900 fps.
I used to shoot in my back yard.....wide open field about 200 yards out.
Had a neighbor call 911 because she told the police we were shooting 'high powered rifles'......her words.
5 cops ran into the yard with guns drawn.
Long story short, we no longer shoot BB guns in the yard, and my neighbor can rest easy.
Nauseating.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,191
If your neighbor is anything like some of mine, she will not rest easy. There will always be something.
palonej
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2015
- Messages
- 14,580
You have no idea how right you are SC!!Now it's my dogs. 2 extremely friendly, well behaved, well taken care of beautiful dogs.
We have a German Shepherd and a Malamute. Every single person on our block adores them........except this super soccer mom from hell.
I have never met a more PC person in my life, and I'm not the only one she loves to surveil.
Nauseating individual.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
- Messages
- 6,191
Beautiful animals!
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2002
- Messages
- 2,008
. As an aside, what are some of the top tier air rifle brands these days 
?