Wool blankets

All these "scientific" arguments about wet wool not insulating because there is no airspace are not factually correct. True, the water will conduct heat, but the water is trapped interstitially and will insulate just as trapped air does. This is how wetsuits work, and I don't think anyone here would dispute the utility of wetsuits.

Wool certainly does have airspace - until it doesn't . While it does, it is probably still capable of absorbing water and keeping it off you. It feels "dry." It may even still be generating heat. That's why wool was once THE standard for cold-weather wear. When it doesn't, it cannot absorb any more water, feels wet, and does not insulate.

Trapped water does not insulate as well as traped air. Higher specific heat, but not insulation. If it did, thermo windows would be filled with water. If it did you wouldn't be advised to wear a dry suit, not a wet suit, when water temps are below 60F.

If you have some source for the insight that trapped water insulates as well as trapped air, please share. New knowledge comes along all the time.
 
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Isn't the bottom line that insulation is dependent on trapped air? I mean we all agree that the ability of a material to insulate us is dependent on whether it is trapping air, right?

Therefore the true test of insulation is not just the material but also the loft?

Four inches of wool probably insulates as well as four inches of down, but I can't think of any reason a quarter inch (or half inch for that matter) of wool could insulate anywhere near as well as four inches of any synthetic insulation, be it lamilite, holofil, fleece, or anything else.

If you have a fleece blanket as thick as a wool blanket, with a windbreaker layer to reduce convective heat loss, I think it has got to be better insulation than wool, and weigh less at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, I love wool. But if it was actually anywhere near as good as the synthetics, that's what the big-buck polar adventurers and mountain climbers would use.
 
QOUTE WIKIPEDIA:

"Characteristics


Wool's scaling and crimp make it easier to spin the fleece. They help the individual fibers attach to each other so that they stay together. Because of the crimp, wool fabrics have a greater bulk than other textiles and retain air, which causes the product to retain heat. Insulation also works both ways; Bedouins and Tuaregs use wool clothes to keep the heat out.

The amount of crimp corresponds to the thickness of the wool fibers. A fine wool like Merino may have up to a hundred crimps per inch, while the coarser wools like karakul may have as few as one to two crimps per inch. Hair, by contrast, has little if any scale and no crimp, and little ability to bind into yarn. On sheep, the hair part of the fleece is called kemp. The relative amounts of kemp to wool vary from breed to breed, and make some fleeces more desirable for spinning, felting, or carding into batts for quilts or other insulating products.

Wool possesses much greater ability to return to its natural length after being stretched than any artificial fiber. In water or steam, wool can stretch to about twice its length without breaking. Because of elasticity, woollen garments may be stretched or crushed without losing their shape. Also, this fiber felts readily, by heat, moisture, and pressure being applied during the manufacturing processes.

Wool fibers are hygroscopic. This means wool has the power to readily absorb and give off moisture. It can absorb moisture up to one-third of its own weight. Synthetic fibers can only absorb 2-3 percent of moisture before they begin to feel wet. Additionally, wool absorbs sound and reduces noise level considerably like many other fabrics. Wool is generally a creamy white color, although some breeds of sheep produce natural colors such as black, brown, silver, and random mixes.

Wool is harder to ignite than most synthetic and cotton fibers used in equivalent products (higher ignition temperature); it has lower rate of flame spread, low heat release, and low heat of combustion; doesn't melt or drip; forms a char which is insulating and self-extinguishes; and contributes less to toxic gases and smoke than other flooring products when used in carpets. Wool carpets are specified for high safety environments such as trains and aircraft. Wool is usually specified for garments for fire-fighters, soldiers, and others in occupations where they are exposed to the likelihood of fire.[3]

Wool is static resistant as the retention of moisture within the fabric prevents a build up of static electricity. Woollen garments are much less likely to spark or cling to the body. The use of woollen car seat covers or carpets reduces the risk of a shock when a person touches a grounded object."

more from a physics discussion forum:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=270141

more info:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/108/how-does-wool-keep-you-warm-when-its-wet

" Each wool fiber (measuring about a thousandth of an inch in diameter, depending on the grade) consists of a bundle of corticle cells, made up of polypeptide chains arranged in coils. These corticle cells are wrapped up in a scaly outer layer called a cuticle, which in turn is covered by a filmy skin called an epicuticle. The epicuticle actually sheds drops of water.

In addition, raindrops are less likely to break up on the surface of wool and seep through than with other fabrics, since the fuzziness of the fibers cushions the fall. So in a light rain, much of the water runs right off, the fabric hardly getting damp at all.

But the real genius of the wool fiber lies in its ability to cope with the high humidity that you may get during rainstorms or at other times. The sheep (they may look stupid, but it's all an act) have cleverly equipped the epicuticle with tiny pores that allow water vapor to pass through to the core, where it's chemically absorbed. A single fibre can slurp up to 30 percent of its own weight in moisture without feeling wet.

Wool does act as a natural insulator, thanks to its built-in crimp. The fibers repel each other, keeping a bit of dead air in between them. But it's the epicuticle that does the heavy lifting when it comes to keeping you warm despite the wet.

— Cecil Adams"



***************************************************

and all this science aside, the proof for me that wool is warmer when wet is the approx 1000+ times i have ventured into the woods here, the RAINFORESTS of BC Canada, where rain can and WILL kill you, all those times i have been WARM in wool, and the times i have worn only fleece, i have been COLD and hypothermic. Out here that will kill you within hours. Wool has kept me alive all my life in these woods. Andf that for me is proof enough

YMMV
 
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OK, so far we've covered that you do, indeed need loft to insulate (because filling the void with water changes the heat transfer mode from convection to conduction, and the environment can suck more heat from the water faster than you can provide it). And wool absorbs a lot of water before feeling wet (and thus keeps you warm longer in the wet, since the fibers fill first, then the air gaps. Of course this means, like down, it'll get flipping heavy when wet.

So assuming I'm smart enough, that either way I go, I'll have enough sense to pitch my tarp so I won't get soaked, and I won't set myself on fire. So. . .how do you use 5 pounds of wool blanket to keep you as warm as 5 pounds of sleeping bag?
 
Hey, Bushman, I (at least) understand all you posted to be true.

It also is the case that polyester has a much higher abrasion resistance and tensile strength than wool (See any wool ropes lately?), dries faster, is hypoallergenic, machine-washable, and color-fast.

Here's a link to one article about wool actually generating heat as it absorbs water.http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...rbtion+OR+absorption&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5
So wool is a very neat material.

Everyone use what works for you. Ain't that how it works?
 
The big plus as someone already mentioned is that you won't flare up like a barrel of maya dust if a spark from the campfire lands on you.
Here is another way of using your wool blankets....

By taking two old and well worn blankets and sewing them together you can make an excellent sleeping roll that is lightweight and will keep you warm no matter how cold it gets. When you sew the two together, leave an opening in one end so that it can be easily stuffed with fiber during a survival outing.

As you get into the camp area stuff the blankets with leaves, cattail down, thistle down, or bark fibers, then roll the blanket around you. The colder it gets, the more stuffing you can put into it.

When you break camp, dump out the blankets and roll them up into a light ball on your back. This type of blanket sleeping bag will take care of you in style without having to carry in a big conventional sleeping bag.
 
Excellent post, Pitdog..... that's using yer noodle.

For those who asked here is are a couple methods I used during my cold training...

I should add that extreme cold temperatures require a different sleep routine. You sleep when you can during the day and work all night. During the day, I would tie my poncho between saplings... tight like a trampoline with my blanket on top... When I was tired, I would lay in it and the whole thing would dip and hug me like my mother used to... lol. This was great on sunny days.

The other technique was to make a "cocoon" using debris covered and contained by my poncho. Don't use this one more than a couple times as condensation will begin to build up. It would be easier to draw a pic of this one...
Cocoon.jpg


There are many other options... I hope this helps.

Rick

PS..... NEVER CLIMB INTO A PONCHO LIKE YOU WOULD A SLEEPING BAG OR A BIVY... THE CONDENSATION CREATED INSIDE IS VERY DANGEROUS!!



:thumbup:
 
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Here's my question:

I picked up two of these SUPER nice German wool mil-issue wool blankets. These things are every bit as good as a Hudson Bay or whatever.

My question is... they have a faint smell of oil. I don't believe they were exposed to oil, but you never know. My best guess was it was a lanilizing of some sort.

I've never owned a wool blanket before so:

A) Is the oilish smell normal?
B) Will it stain anything if it indeed has oil on it?
C) Is it now flammable?
D) How do I wash that off if it's not supposed to be there?
 
This fits the theme too...

We evenually evolved into using a "WALKING SHELTER" when snowshoeing through the deep bush. Its a beefed up Anorak, really. We used 2 military blankets sewn together. This allows you to pack insulation between the layers in etreme cold. There is a "beaver tail" flap that folds down to let you sit on a cold log in comfort. Upfront there is a small pocket for a nalgene filled with hot water/tea. You can squat down, bring your arms and head inside.... and just shut down for an hour when you needed to.

This in one of the best things I ever made for woods rambling. I have since made one that allows the inner and outer layer to be separated for milder weather. VERY VERSITILE PIECE OF KIT!!!

Rick

rickscappote.jpg



Here is my friend, Allan in his......

ALLAN_IN_WINTER_HOUSE22.jpg
 
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That's a really excellent idea there Magnussen, I think I may steal that one from you if you don't mind!

Did you have trouble stitching the wool? I'm not a hugely strong sewer.
 
The big plus as someone already mentioned is that you won't flare up like a barrel of maya dust if a spark from the campfire lands on you.
Here is another way of using your wool blankets....

By taking two old and well worn blankets and sewing them together you can make an excellent sleeping roll that is lightweight and will keep you warm no matter how cold it gets. When you sew the two together, leave an opening in one end so that it can be easily stuffed with fiber during a survival outing.

As you get into the camp area stuff the blankets with leaves, cattail down, thistle down, or bark fibers, then roll the blanket around you. The colder it gets, the more stuffing you can put into it.

When you break camp, dump out the blankets and roll them up into a light ball on your back. This type of blanket sleeping bag will take care of you in style without having to carry in a big conventional sleeping bag.

Hey pitdog, been reading Tom Brown Jr.? :D

Doc
 
That's a really excellent idea there Magnussen, I think I may steal that one from you if you don't mind!

Did you have trouble stitching the wool? I'm not a hugely strong sewer.


It ain't called stealin' if I'm givin it up, right? You need to fold the edges into the seem so they don't unravel... check out techniques on the web.
 
Magnussen- Were the sleeves roughly 3/4 length? And for any particular reason?

I didn't cut them down at all.... the blanket was 60" wide across the shoulders so they are a little longer than 3/4 sleaves. I wouldn't want them much longer anyway... the cuff stays out of the way, nicely while working.

Rick
 
This fits the theme too...

We evenually evolved into using a "WALKING SHELTER" when snowshoeing through the deep bush. Its a beefed up Anorak, really. We used 2 military blankets sewn together. This allows you to pack insulation between the layers in etreme cold. There is a "beaver tail" flap that folds down to let you sit on a cold log in comfort. Upfront there is a small pocket for a nalgene filled with hot water/tea. You can squat down, bring your arms and head inside.... and just shut down for an hour when you needed to.

This in one of the best things I ever made for woods rambling. I have since made one that allows the inner and outer layer to be separated for milder weather. VERY VERSITILE PIECE OF KIT!!!

Rick
rickscappote.jpg



Here is my friend, Allan in his......

ALLAN_IN_WINTER_HOUSE22.jpg

That's awesome !!!!
 
I think - I know - that an earlier comment that I made was misunderstood, mostly due to me.

Let me explain. Back in the mid-1980's we had a kid in the mob (interestingly named Rick), who never got cold. He would sleep on the snow with nothing under him but a plastic ground sheet and the dubious help of his sleeping bag. As his body weight crushed the air out of the stuffing of the sleeping bag at many points, his body shape would be outlined in the snow (or ice) in the morning. "Rick, weren't you cold last night? No. I was toasty."

He had little interest in presentations on strategies for keeping warm. No foam pad or Thrmorest for our Rick. Rarely even wore a hat. Cotton T-shirt in 39F drizzle.

(He also backpacked in six pounds of Sorels "to build up" his legs.)

The other lads wondered what planet he came from. Surely not Terra of Sol. Alien life form. Came from somewhere where 15F was almost too warm.

Rick survived being hit by a drunk driver when out joggin and now teaches photography at Ohio U. in Athens, Ohio. He camps out in winter and still sleeps on the snow.l

Everyone is different. Some slightly different. Some very different. That's al I meant. (Hence my comment on using what works for you.)

As for expedient insulation added to a garment, I can tell you people in the city look at you funny when you go crinkling down the sidewalks with crumpled newspapers under your nylon shell. Who cares? I am not Rick. I get cold.
 
This fits the theme too...

We evenually evolved into using a "WALKING SHELTER" when snowshoeing through the deep bush. Its a beefed up Anorak, really. We used 2 military blankets sewn together. This allows you to pack insulation between the layers in etreme cold. There is a "beaver tail" flap that folds down to let you sit on a cold log in comfort. Upfront there is a small pocket for a nalgene filled with hot water/tea. You can squat down, bring your arms and head inside.... and just shut down for an hour when you needed to.

This in one of the best things I ever made for woods rambling. I have since made one that allows the inner and outer layer to be separated for milder weather. VERY VERSITILE PIECE OF KIT!!!

Rick

rickscappote.jpg



Here is my friend, Allan in his......

ALLAN_IN_WINTER_HOUSE22.jpg

There's an episode of Survivorman where Les wears something very similar to this (can't remember if it was wool or fur/hide) while "camping" in the wreckage of a simulated small plane crash. It had shorter sleeves like yours, which would be great for keeping snow off them and for putting big winter gloves off and on, I imagine. It also had a long "tail" in the back which was useful to sit down on in the snow when there wasn't anyplace else off the ground (I assume it had to be somewhat water resistant). All in all, looks like a pretty sweet big, bulky, warm "over-shirt" for cold wintery weather.
 
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