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Work those ankles! For the woods.

I would walk barefoot more, but dang people insist on putting concrete and asphalt almost everywhere I want to walk... this is no fun at 90+ degrees. let's not forget the broken glass, metal scraps etc.

I think I'll get another pair of wrestling shoes, lets my feet feel the ground without the FUBAR shape of walking or running shoes.

Thank God, there is still some wilderness, shoes off walk on :D
 
beef said:
How can a sock provide support? The ankle only needs to flex a certain degree laterally before injury occurs. Are socks designed to flex a certain degree then stop? HOw do you wash these stiff socks?

Thanks for setting me straight :)
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Support doesnt just need to come at the end of movement. Support can start at the beginning. Sometimes all thats needed to avoid any lateral movement is a little compression across the ligaments. If you look at many higher end socks for hiking you will see a weave difference and elastic in the weave across the ankle.

Ankels need to travel a large degree for injury to occur. There is a tipping point when an ankle is twisted. Once the lateral movement reaches this point there is no return and it goes all the way to injury.

Supportive boots will allow the ankle to go almost to that tipping point and then hold it from going further. So yes quality boots worn properly will stop an ankle injury in its tracks. For those who have had a bad sprain you know this is an injury you cannot walk on and can be life threatning in the middle of nowhere if help cant get to you and the environment is not friendly.

Skam
 
Along the same lines, I read an article a few months ago on a VERY large study on knee injuries. Basically boiled down to the best way to treat bad knees and the back pains that tend to follow was to retrain your feet to walking barefoot (or the most basic of thin soled shoes). It would take a few weeks to do it, but the people that did would start walking much more softly. Less impact going up the leg, knee, and back. Because of it, some expensive italian shoe maker came out with a line of dress shoes for men that have a very thin soul.
 
I have broken an ankle when wearing boots. It would have happened regardless of footwear. To each his own as long as I get the last word in, or so it goes.
 
beef said:
I have broken an ankle when wearing boots. It would have happened regardless of footwear.
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So if it happened regardless of footwear whats your point?

I got bitten by a mosquito regardless of bug spray...? Point:rolleyes:

SKam
 
I see there's a debate about Evolute and hiking barefoot. I too hike barefoot, on established dirt or grass trails, where the risk of rattlesnake bite isn't a factor. IE, above 6700 feet. I rock climb barefoot as well, I have yet to find a pair of sticky shoes that can offer me the grip and flexibility of a naked foot. Indians ran all over this country barefoot for hundreds of years before any white man ever planted his boot on an Eastern shore. Soleless or soft soled moccassins are also a superb alternative to hiking barefoot that protects the bottom of your feet when hiking over more dangerous terrain, IE glass ridden, thorny etc areas.
 
Natives wore footwear for thousands of years, despite going bearfoot.

Claiming footwear does not support is nuts.

Skam
 
Personally, I love hiking barefoot. If I'm carrying a heavy load, then yeah, I'll wear boots for extra support, but barefoot definitely beats anything else. I recently got a pair of Vibram Fivefingers. They look weird as hell, but they are great for going places you'd normally not be able to go in bare feet.

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
 
beef said:
Footwear does support. It just doesn't require ankle bracing to do so.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Footwear.htm#Ankle
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Roger Caffin is pushing an agenda. Read the article. Surprise! hes a lightweight hiking guy. No credentials to back up his claims.

Beef,

I wear sandals, I wear them hiking on easy trails, hell I wear them from snow to snow everyday. I do a lot of off trail SAR work, former military and I cfan say with 100% conviction light footwear or bare feet would be torn to shreds.

I tore my ankles to shreds when I was younger playing sports. There is no way in hell I will ever be able hike in serious terrain with light footwear.

I think you should write all the military's in the world and tell them they got it wrong with combat boots.

On my own time I do medical rescue for an adventure race yearly, they are all lighweight guys with high tec off trail runners. I splint about 6-10 ankles a year, some require surgery and even a couple breaks. Light footwear fails even in the elite athlete. Never had a twisted ankle from a boot.

This discusion is so rediculous its insane. Supporting the ankle doesn't require ankle bracing:eek: Nuts absolute nuts.

Skam
 
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I don't know what you consider serious terrain, but the majority of my walks include offtrack sections. The purpose of footwear to my mind is to either stop my foot being punctured, and to insulate the feet in cold weather. If my shoes fit well, supporting my foot so that it doesn't slide around inside, I don't think I need anything else.

Can we please drop the "noone walks in country as rough as I do, if you do differently you'll die" attitude?
It's possible to discuss without ramming opinions down other people's throats. There are experienced offtrack walkers who have survived up till now without your gospel. And may (with your blessing) manage to dodge death for a few more seasons.
I enjoy reading your posts, but come on!
 
I know of a few places my tennies won't go, one is near a forest or brush fire, two is around felled trees, and three any terrain where I might lose a shoe without being able to get it back... like say rivers.
 
skammer said:
Roger Caffin is pushing an agenda. Read the article. Surprise! hes a lightweight hiking guy. No credentials to back up his claims.

Beef,

I wear sandals, I wear them hiking on easy trails, hell I wear them from snow to snow everyday. I do a lot of off trail SAR work, former military and I cfan say with 100% conviction light footwear or bare feet would be torn to shreds.

I tore my ankles to shreds when I was younger playing sports. There is no way in hell I will ever be able hike in serious terrain with light footwear.

I think you should write all the military's in the world and tell them they got it wrong with combat boots.

On my own time I do medical rescue for an adventure race yearly, they are all lighweight guys with high tec off trail runners. I splint about 6-10 ankles a year, some require surgery and even a couple breaks. Light footwear fails even in the elite athlete. Never had a twisted ankle from a boot.

This discusion is so rediculous its insane. Supporting the ankle doesn't require ankle bracing:eek: Nuts absolute nuts.

Skam
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I have shoes that offer more support than my 10 inch issued combat boots. I've injured my ankles more in combat boots than I have in moccasins and I've put just as many miles on leather soled mocs, carrying just as much weight. So yes, I can tell the military they got it wrong. And the whole idea that wearing lightweight footwear or going barefoot teaches you to step light instead of plow your ankles knees hip and back to the shitter, that's 100% dead on. I can say this because at a shockingly young age in the military I ground my hips to the point of irreparable osteoarthritis (that wrecked my military career) and will have to live in pain for the next 25 years until I am old enough to receive a hip replacement, and that after a hike in mocs my legs hurt MUCH less than after a hike in combat boots which provide inches of padding, support and "shock absorbing" rubber soles. Take this from a guy who puts 50-70 miles a week on his feet, even with osteoarthritis in both hips.
 
http://www.baysideblades.com.au/inl...es/bont/images/Green bont Bont Frame 150a.jpg

these are my speedskates. I take these out for a 10 mile long, 30mph cruise every once in a while when the hips aren't complaining. The boots on them end at the base of the ankle, which gives your foot the maneuverability to roll the skate outward and give you an extra 8-10 inches of push per stroke. Say, an extra 5-7mph at almost no energy cost. They are solid as a freight train, moreso than any typical inline skate, no 'ankle support'. I can say that as many miles I put on, especially on softsoled mocs and bare feet, it's not about 10 inch tall footwear, it's about how you walk, how you build your ankles to begin with, and 95% of the time paying attention to where you put you freakin foot.
 
forestnomad said:
Personally, I love hiking barefoot. If I'm carrying a heavy load, then yeah, I'll wear boots for extra support, but barefoot definitely beats anything else. I recently got a pair of Vibram Fivefingers. They look weird as hell, but they are great for going places you'd normally not be able to go in bare feet.

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/
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I love the fivefingers too, and use them for lots of backpacking. I have strengthened my lower legs muscles significantly, and honestly can't remember the last time I had even a minor ankle roll.


There is a lot of sports medicine and kinesthesiology research on barefoot athletics that suggests you can prevent injury by going shoeless. Granted, most of that research focuses on running, and not hiking, but the ideas are similar - we've been "improving" shoe and boot support for decades, yet the injury rates remain pretty constant. Many olympic runners now train by running barefoot - it completely changes your stride to a more natural one that eliminates heel striking, reducing the transfer of impact force into your ankles and knees. It's not a widely accepted concept yet, but the evidence is piling up that, in many cases, we could benefit by using LESS support, not more.

To me, boots are for protection against sharp stuff and critters, not for support. The strength of my legs is what provides my support.
 
PayetteRucker said:
I have shoes that offer more support than my 10 inch issued combat boots. I've injured my ankles more in combat boots than I have in moccasins and I've put just as many miles on leather soled mocs, carrying just as much weight. .
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Funny,

Wearing combat boots I never had foot problems or ankle problems. I too put thousands of miles with full combat loads on.

Different strokes. I guess we will see low cut runners in theatre any time now.

Skam
 
beef said:
It's possible to discuss without ramming opinions down other people's throats.
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Nobody is ramming anything, its all opinions here based on experience. My experience is nobody I work with would ever consider shoes or barefoot as they would be chewed to pieces.

SKam
 
not to throw more gas on the fire...but Skammer there is a big difference between say the hiker on the weekend bagging a trail vs a SAR team on a grid search in the mountains and bush.........

just saying,

for the record i hike in combats, and walk barefoot around the camp, although i have hiked barefoot and trail ran in trail runners before.
 
skammer said:
Funny,

Wearing combat boots I never had foot problems or ankle problems. I too put thousands of miles with full combat loads on.

Different strokes. I guess we will see low cut runners in theatre any time now.

Skam
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I have seen guys wearing 6 inchers which to me is pretty much borderline. Certain units and specialties as you know get much more leeway about their kit, but day to day 8-10 inch is still the norm.
 
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