Worksharp Ken Onion Impressions and Discussion

It's Finally Done! I hope someone gets something out of this.

[video=youtube;ApyDcJzKBgk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApyDcJzKBgk[/video]

Brian.
 
Brian,

Thanks for putting that up. Your baking pan + shelf paper setup is ingenious.

It was very interesting to see your "belt facing" technique on the Work Sharp. I have tried it briefly and I like being able to use the second hand to guide the curve and tip area. It seems to work best for me on larger knives, like the kitchen knife you demonstrated on, but is tricky on small slip joints which don't have much knife surface for the second hand.

I know that was a lot of work---thanks again for putting it up.

Andrew
 
bgentry said:
It's Finally Done! I hope someone gets something out of this.
Click to expand...

Big, big THANK YOU Brian for your excellent two-handed technique video.

Especially for the hints about grinding near the bolster and tip -
that is invaluable information.

Like Andrew has already said the use of shelf liner and cookie sheet is really neat.

Only one comment - for the safety police among us -
might want to wear some form of eye protection -
especially if trying to grind in a new edge bevel angle,
then one can literally see the sparks (therefore metal particles) fly!
In mitigation the belt does run downwards on that side.

I stand in admiration of your skills - you might consider their Blade Grinder Attachment -
I have a review in Post #2 (link) of -

icon14.png
Review - Work Sharp Knife & Tool Sharpener - Ken Onion Edition

and follow up usage in more than just sharpening -
but quite extensive modifications in Post #19 (link).

Once again thank you so much.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
 
Your video was very valuable to me. I don't have my WorkSharp yet. I'm still a novice sharpener and have never used anything powered. You video makes me feel better about my chances for success.

I thought you needed to turn the machine off while the tip was in the middle of the belt to prevent rounding the tip. (I read that somewhere) Being left handed - that was going to be a problem. Now I see I don't need to cut the machine off.

Thanks for your work and time.
 
Hey, it's nice to hear that a few of you guys enjoyed the video. :) Since it was my first it took extra time to figure things out, especially the editing and publishing part.

AFAustin: Regarding smaller knives on the WSKO: I haven't done any slipjoints, just lockbacks and fixed blades, but I have done several with blades at 3" or under. I didn't have any issues using two hands, but I think I know what you mean. At some point there's so little area that you'll be covering part of the blade with your hand, so you can't see the edge as it touches the belt. I think I recall this happening on the tip (last 1") of the smaller folders I did. I that case, I used two techniques to try to make sure I was on the bevel:

1. Sort of like a bench stone, there actually is a "feel" element to determining if you're on the bevel or not. You can sort of feel, with your fingers, when the bevel is flat on the belt, versus when it's on the shoulder. There's not a ton of tactile feedback, but I used it somewhat.
2. Looking *down*, at the spine of the knife, you can use the distance from spine to belt as a guide. I actually use this pretty often, as I'm usually trying to (mostly) match the factory grind. I do my initial assessment, using sharpie on the edge and touching it to the belt, until it removes all of the sharpie. Then I know I have the angle correct and at that point I try to visually memorize the distance from the spine to the belt. That way I don't have to reapply sharpie again, or at least not as often.

Again, just something I do; other people may have other and/or better techniques.

I'm thinking of doing more videos, both with and without the WSKO. I'll post in this forum when/if I do.

Thanks,

Brian.
 
Great job Brian!!!

I got one of these for Christmas, and your video just took a bunch of time off the learning curve!!
 
I received the econoway belts 2 days after ordering, so plus for good service. Will try them out over the next week. However, it seems like the norax belts are of higher quality. Will update soon.
 
I be a newbie in these parts.

I just ordered a new pocket carry knife that uses some exotic steel for the blade, and was wondering what to use for maintenance. My previous/current carry knife has AUS-8 steel, and I've been able to keep the edge on that. I also have kitchen knives and some older pocket knives that could use a good sharpening. That's how I came to wander into this forum last night: looking for information that applies to these topics.

When I wandered out to my kitchen this morning I turned a television on and flipped through some channels and came to an "infomercial" on the Worksharp system. That looked pretty interesting to me. So I came back to check out what experience the members here have had with this device. It seems pretty positive. And that video above, though I haven't yet watched it, just from the opening still shot on the screen there looks like it will be mighty impressive. Thanks for the effort you put into that; I'm sure it will prove to be very useful to me and many others.

But my gut tells me, this tool is a useful device that fits in well with the mindset associated with the world of mass production and interchangeable parts we live in. It will be useful with knives and other cutting edges that get used all the time and continually need re-sharpening. But I can't see it replacing the attention each individual blade receives from a skilled hand that's using a whetstone and taking care to bring the edge to a place where it will hold its sharpness as it's used time and time again. So I'm thinking this Worksharp system would be most useful to bring a dull blade up to a certain degree of sharpness, and after that, using a very fine grit by hand to perfect the edge would make for a killer system.

So tell me, which side of what is probably an endless debate on natural stone v. artificial diamond "stones" seems to carry the greatest weight? (for the time being, at least?)
 
robert M. said:
So I'm thinking this Worksharp system would be most useful to bring a dull blade up to a certain degree of sharpness, and after that, using a very fine grit by hand to perfect the edge would make for a killer system.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. After setting an initial edge with the WS KO, I maintain it with a Sharpmaker and various strops.

The engineer at Darex who designed the WS told me he touches up his knives with a small ceramic and they only go back to the WS occasionally.

Others can better advise you on the diamond vs. natural stone question.

Andrew
 
bravodelta said:
I received the econoway belts 2 days after ordering, so plus for good service. Will try them out over the next week. However, it seems like the norax belts are of higher quality. Will update soon.
Click to expand...

The Econoway belts are OK. The 800 and the 2000 have a seam that is fairly noisy, but functional. I would not put these belts is the same tier of quality as the nortons that came with the KO. The Econoway's are fine for rough re-profiling but I don't expect them to last as long as the OEM.
 
I've been doing more abused knives lately; just finished three kitchen knives: Two 8" chefs and a santoku. I'm finding that the really dull ones are taking longer than I initially thought. I used a timer on a few of these, as opposed to just glancing at the clock, or estimating. The last 3 took me around 30, 25, and 20 minutes for a total of 1:15 for three knives. That's not forever, but it's not exactly quick either.

I experimented with running at full speed (I'll call it speed 14) and a little down from there (speed #10). This removes metal faster and I actually heated up the tips of a few of the knives this time. Nothing dramatic at all, maybe 100 to 110 degrees. Warmer than skin, but no where near "hot".

I recognize that part of the reason it takes me a while is that I stop to check often. Even trying to check less frequently, it's still a long process on these incredibly dull blades. I guess if I was to try to do this as fast as the pros do it, I'd need the same tools as the pros: A 1x42 or 2x72 belt, which presumably removes metal way faster.

I wonder if something like a 48 grit belt would speed things up? Econaway has 24, 36, 40, 50, etc. Hmmmm. This might be worth exploring if it could make my process significantly shorter. Anyone with experience have an opinion on all of this?

Brian.
 
bgentry said:
I'm finding that the really dull ones are taking longer than I initially thought. I used a timer on a few of these, as opposed to just glancing at the clock, or estimating. The last 3 took me around 30, 25, and 20 minutes for a total of 1:15 for three knives. That's not forever, but it's not exactly quick either.

I recognize that part of the reason it takes me a while is that I stop to check often. Even trying to check less frequently, it's still a long process on these incredibly dull blades. I guess if I was to try to do this as fast as the pros do it, I'd need the same tools as the pros: A 1x42 or 2x72 belt, which presumably removes metal way faster.

I wonder if something like a 48 grit belt would speed things up? Econaway has 24, 36, 40, 50, etc. Hmmmm. This might be worth exploring if it could make my process significantly shorter. Anyone with experience have an opinion on all of this?
Click to expand...

Brian -
Work Sharp have some new belt sets either on their site or pretty soon -
this is the short description sent to me by Dan Dovel the designer of the WSKTS -
The belts ...are all in stock now (and on the web site soon.)

· The U243 set is a more complete set of the stock belts (with tweener grits).

· The U264 is my preferred set for freehand shaping/sharpening. They are stiffer and will produce a flatter convex bevel if desired. (I don’t recommend them for tight recurves such as a Chive.)

· I prefer the ceramic set for repairs, profiling, and angle changes on thick blades. Just work your way through the grits and then switch over to U243 or U264 at X65.

· The MicroMesh belts work well for finishing/polishing handles etc. as well as smoothing sharp edges on spines or liners. The 6000 and 12000 make a good post sharpening strop if needed.

· I recommend the diamond belts for ceramic knives only. The diamond will also cut steel blades but the life/performance isn’t as good as the ceramic or Norax belts. (They will work on carbide blades if needed.)

· The leather is pre-conditioned with .25-2µ abrasive and can be recoated as desired. I typically only apply an occasional coating of mink oil.
Click to expand...

From that description it seems you might want to investigate ceramic belts.

Hope that was some use to you.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
 
Vincent, thanks for posting Dan's comments on the belts. Let me ask, though, as to "The leather is pre-conditioned with .25-2µ abrasive"---does that mean .25 micron or 2 micron or...?

Thanks,

Andrew
 
AFAustin said:
Vincent, thanks for posting Dan's comments on the belts. Let me ask, though, as to "The leather is pre-conditioned with .25-2µ abrasive"---does that mean .25 micron or 2 micron or...?
Click to expand...

Andrew I don't know -

But the Work Sharp Tools web page on the leather belt
says
WSSA0002782
...
0.5 micron Chromium Oxide Honing Compound
Click to expand...

You could ask him -
Dan posts here as WorkSharpEngineer

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
 
I'm definitely interested in the new belts you wrote about Vincent. Like you said, especially the ceramic ones. If they are lower grit (40 to 80), that would be great. I called Darex today to see if they had a release date, but the person I got on the phone had no idea what I was talking about. Maybe Mr. WorkSharpEngineer will chime in with a release date for us. :)

Thanks for the info. I'm anxious for more details.

Brian.
 
Thanks for the reply, Vincent.

Brian, I sent a message to Dan regarding release date on the new belt selection. He may post here with the info., or if he lets me know, I'll post it.

BTW, on those very dull knives, were you starting with the P120?

Andrew
 
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AFAustin said:
Brian, I sent a message to Dan regarding release date on the new belt selection. He may post here with the info., or if he lets me know, I'll post it.

BTW, on those very dull knives, were you starting with the P120?
Andrew
Click to expand...

Thanks Austin; looking forward to the info. I've been starting almost every blade at P120. All I seem to be getting lately is super abused dull knives. I've done maybe 3 or 4 that I started at X22 or X65. The blade on my Leatherman only needed about 3 minutes end to end, starting with the X65 IIRC. It's weird, but now I really don't think of the P120 as being *that* abrasive. I keep going with the P120 on these blades until I get a burr on both sides, full length, which can take some time.

After that, I literally make 4 to 6 passes per side on the other belts and just step through them, until finally slowing down the machine to speed #1 to remove as much of the burr as I can with whatever belt I stop at, which is usually the X4.

Having a 60 or 80 grit to work with might make that first long grinding step take a lot less time. Half as long (or less) would be great! :)

Brian.
 
Brian, I notice that your technique is to apply knife to belt about 1" from the heel, then back towards the handle, then along the full length of the blade. This means that the heel receives 2x the number of passes compared to the rest of the blade. One of the problems I found with the original WS is that the heel can acquire a divot over time. Have you found this to be a problem?
Thanks
 
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