Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..

Checked a few knives that were easily accessible:


The Endura did flick open, but neither Native would.


-Bob

Odd that you have a flickable Endura - I've got about 8 Enduras, and none of them flick.

The Endura's a good choice for NYC carry generally, for that type of knife.
Because generally it doesn't flick open due to the pressure of the
lockback spring, and the blade is less than four inches.

I think Sal knew something when he made the blade on the E3
3 and 15/16!! ;) :)
 
Checked a few knives that were easily accessible:

Definitely cannot flick open my AG Russell Swing Guard, and it's well under 4". Ditto ther AG Russell 340 lockback (no longer in production).

Some SAKs have locking blades.

The Endura did flick open, but neither Native would.

Gerber Silver Knight would not flick open.

-Bob

That may be true. I think the fact that a Buck 110 could fail this test illustrates it's effective nature.
 
I feel for you, Garageboy. City life sucks big!!! I left the northeast due to the bull they pull. I agree with Dreamhawk AZ is nice. Just be careful in Phx valley. Cali and New Yorker are being their crap along, turning this valley in to the next L.A., I'm thinking of moving again after ten years here.
 
I was not suggesting he create a legal problem for himself. I just suggest that he go to court prepared. It does not appear that he was in violation of the law as it was written. If he has a clean record I don't see how he could get off with more than a slap on the wrist. Best case scenario he gets the knife back and is more careful with how he carries it. If he legitimately feels he was harassed, perhaps because he is young, it is well within his right to make a complaint. Although if he is likely to run into these fine officers again it may not be in his best interest.
 
thefirefox, the last thing GarageBoy needs is more grief with the legal system. This is not small-town USA, it's New York City. The current anti-knife attitude is the Mayor's project. He is a classic nanny-state bureaucrat.

He has the City's legal department to deal with this. Who is paying GarageBoy's legal bills?

Going after the police is a no-win situation since they were demonstrably doing their job, no matter how much we disagree with the need for those specific laws, interpreted that way.

I wholeheartedly agree with Esav that to go after the cops is a waste of time and energy. At best.

GarageBoy, buy a nice new knife you really like, one that's legal in NYC, and keep it fully concealed.
Enjoy it, and know that the NYC knife laws are pretty reasonable compared to those of other big cities.
 
OK, I think we ARE on the same page.

The only point I want to make is the definition of "harassment". In this context, we need the legal definition, not the colloquial sense. What people may see as harassment by police, the police see as turning over rocks, to see what's under them.

In GarageBoy's case, all they really found was the knife that attracted their attention to him. They could have handed it back and told him to keep it deep in the pocket. He could have done that and avoided the encounter.

In business, harassment is treating an employee in any way that is not based on their job performance. As long as the only charge was accurate -- they DID see his knife -- they weren't harassing him. They were just busting his chops! :)
 
Point taken. We are on the same page. It just sucks to lose a great knife that won't be cheap to replace- especially when you're young. It seems a bit harsh for someone who was apparently minding his own business to have it taken and have to go to court. I feel your pain garageboy.:(
 
Odd that you have a flickable Endura - I've got about 8 Enduras, and none of them flick.
I was suprised too. It's an older knife, but in near-mint condition. Maybe the newer Enduras have stronger springs? Among the other Spyderco knives in my collection, two Natives would not flick open, the Q would not flick open, and the Ladybug would not flick open.

I never thought the AG Russell FeatherLite or Original One-Hand Knife would flick open easily, but they did.

The Gerber Gator flicks open easily, but the smaller Magnum Junior won't.

Camillus Woodcraft would not flick open, nor would a similar knife from Bear MCG.

The Benchmade Griptillian practically flew open!

I only spent a couple of minutes tested a dozen knives or so. In general it seems that the larger "tactical" knives are easy to flick open, while smaller traditional lockbacks are not. My guess is that blade mass is a critical factor.
I think the fact that a Buck 110 could fail this test illustrates it's effective nature.
I checked one of my Buck 110 just now. Out of ten or fifteen attempts, it opened only once. Apparantly you have to 'flick' it just right.

-Bob
 
A bit OT, but...

I agree with Dreamhawk AZ is nice. Just be careful in Phx valley. Cali and New Yorker are being their crap along, turning this valley in to the next L.A.,
Most of Arizona may be nice, but Tucson and Phoenix are crapholes. Phoenix is a sprawling suburban mess with one of the highest crime rates in the country. In Tucson the boss had to padlock the dumpsters to keep the winos from sleeping in them - kept scaring the office staff.

Newsflash, cities suck and always have. But that's what this country is turning into, one giant city.

-Bob
 
Bob W-

A.G. hints in his catalog that the Featherlite can be flicked open.

As for the others, I guess it's part of the vagueries and tolerances of production knives as to whether they'll flick or not.

Generally, though, linerlocks are more flickable than lockbacks are.

It's best though to check the knife - as you're obviously doing - to see if it passes the "flickability" test, 'cause that's what a cop's gonna do if s/he decides to make an issue of it.

When I go into NYC, I take Enduras and or Delicas. Plus a fixed blade or three. Or so. ;)
 
A.G. hints in his catalog that the Featherlite can be flicked open.
Since the tolerances are so tight, especially on the Original One-Hand Knife, I expected them to be difficult to flick open. But they were relatively easy. Obviously the smoothness and pivot geometry are contributing factors.

Best Wishes,
-Bob
 
Thsi is what I found:

Chap. 1 Public Safety 10-133
Historical Note: Formerly 436-5.1

10-133 Possession of knives or instruments.

A. Legislative findings. It is hereby declared and found that possession in public places, streets and parks of the city, of large knives is a menace to the public health, peace, safety and welfare of the people of the city; that the possession in public places, streets and parks of such knives has resulted in the commission of many homicides, robberies, maimings and assaults of and upon the people of the city; that this condition encourages and fosters the commission of crimes and contributes to juvenile delinquency, youth crime and gangsterism; that unless the possession or carrying in public places, streets and parks of the city of such knives without a lawful purpose is prohibited, there is danger of an increase in crimes of violence and other conditions detrimental to public peace, safety and welfare. It is further declared and found that the wearing or carrying of knives in open view in public places while such knives are not being used for a lawful purpose is unnecessary and threatening to the public and should be prohibited.
B. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street or park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more.

C. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or park to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually using suck knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of this section.

D. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this sections shall not apply to (1) persons in the military service on the state of New York when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations issued by the chief of stall to the governor; (2) police officers and peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law; (3) participants in special events when authorized by the police commissioner (4) persons on the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law; or (5) any person displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this section when such a knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife; or (b) is displayed or carried by a member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para military unit or veterans organization, to from or during a meeting, parade or other performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the carrying of suck knife or (c) is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase in such a manner as not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or (d) is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl scouts of America or similar organization or society and such display or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such organization or society.

E. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment.


Case notes:
This section promotes a legitimate governmental objective and is not unconstitutionally vague or an improper exercise of the city's police power.------ People v Ortiz 125 Misc. 2d 318 [1984]

First off I have to agree with most opinions here that New York city sucks, for law enforcement and that (( unnecessary vulgarity )) mayor that is running the place. ( By the way I was born there and my father was a NYC cop for 26 years) He is spearheading that "mayors of cities" gun control agenda, and I'm sure knives will be next. You would think that seemingly intelligent people would understand that these laws only keep honest law abiding citizens from carrying guns and knives, leaving them unarmed and unable to defend themselves. Having nice knives is great, but given the (( unnecessary vulgarity )) laws down there I would stick to cheap "disposables" like CRKT's etc.

With that said I would get a letter from my boss, assuming you have that kind of relationship with him or her stating you were working that day (SEE BOLD ABOVE)and this should probably go away for you. Other wise use the other excuses and tell the (( unnecessary vulgarity )) liberal judge(more than likely!) that you were picnicing or any of the other loopholes they gave you in that ordinance.

Yes it would probably be cheaper to walk away and lose the knife, but if you care about living there, let the judge know that while NYC has some of the toughest knife and gun laws, it doesn't disarm the (( unnecessary vulgarity )), only you, who has no i'll intent. I would also make the case that prima facie evidence is unconstitutional. Just because you drive a car, it doesn't allow them to charge you with drunk driving or that you are going to run red lights or mow down a corner full of sheeple waiting for the light to turn green! Its innocent until proven guilty, and they still need to prove malice, or ill intent. Having the ability to do something doesnt mean you are ever going to do it.

Good luck with your plight, its one more reason why I'm glad I got (( unnecessary vulgarity )) out of that (( unnecessary vulgarity )) city.:thumbup:
 
hmmm...interesting that your gator is flickable...mine won't even budge in the slightest

also to all of you who are suggesting a legal recourse, it really sounds like according to the law he was completely at fault in this case, no questions about it. It doesn't matter that it's a sucky law, you can't try to get it changed after you've already broken it, you have to do that before hand. It also sounds like he was very lucky that he got off with only the one charge, although I do think he should look and see if there is any way that the judge could get him his knife back when he goes, that's where a note from his employer would come in handy. He could show the judge that he really does have a valid reason for carrying, and simply brought it that day out of habit.
 
z282z06, you misinterpreted his problem, and your advice is consequently useless. He was only charged with not carrying his knife concealed. Making speeches to the judge won't excuse that.

Making insulting speeches about the city and its government isn't helping either. The rest of us are already aware of the laws' defects. Don't put down the people who have to, or choose to, live there. Save the vulgarity for Pirates Cove and Whine & Cheese.
 
I do think he should look and see if there is any way that the judge could get him his knife back when he goes, that's where a note from his employer would come in handy. He could show the judge that he really does have a valid reason for carrying, and simply brought it that day out of habit.

That's not a bad idea at all. It would also establish that he takes the knife seriously as a tool for his job.
 
Thanks guys. Right now, I don't care about the PMillie, I just don't wanna get in trouble again.

If you gorilla the Endura enough, it'll flick..
 
I got in late on this one....As I have posted many times before, as a Former NYC LEO, this is a valid arresst and he was lucky that it was not the end of the month as he most likely would have been charged with the far more serious crime of a gravity knife( a Class a Misd with up to one day less than a year as a possible sentence). The charge that was written on your universal summons (you got the pink criminal court part but this is the same paper work used for traffic ticket and parking tickets) was written as a violation of the NYC Admin Code and is in this case a violation. In NY a conviction of a violation does not give you a criminal record as only Misd and Felonies are considered crimes in NY. Your best path here is to go to the court date and plead guilty. The fine will be between $50 to $75 ( but can got to $250), and you will pay it and get on with your life. If you plead not guilty, and the ADA looks at the evidence, than the ADA has full authority to upgrade the charge to possession of a gravity knife.
As for all those who feel the Officers "stole" the knife...you are very wrong. The knife will be checked in as evidence ( a form is filled out and the knife will be in a zip lock bag with the form), if they wanted to add it to their collection it would have gone in their pocket and no paper work would have followed. As to getting a lawyer , that is up to you. The lawyer will take at least another $250 from you and this is not a criminal offense at this point. Good luck, and learn the law where you live....
 
One last thing, in NYC if the blade can be flicked open at all it is a gravity knife. This INCLUDES hold the blade and flicking the handle open !!! I totally disagree with all of this, but when several people used the syderco type knives and flicked them open by holding the hole on the blade and flicking the handle open, the court has determined that this is also a gravity knife....just a warning, so don't kill the messenger....
 
Back
Top