Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..

When is your court date? Any idea what kind of fine, if any, is involved?
 
shootist16, this is a violation and therefore the maximun penality is 15 days in jail and or $250 fine....that said the normal fine for this as a first time offense is $25 to 50 fine and $25 court prosessing fee.....if he pleads not guilty and the ADA goes for the gravity knife cahrge then the max is 364 days in jail and I believe $5,000 fine.....
 
Any possibilty of getting diversion so it won't go on his record?
 
Inspired by this thread I tested my CRKT B.U.L.L for flickability. Lo and behold, I can open it just by holding the handle tight and flicking my wrist. It seems just about every folder is a dangerous flickable gangsta' weapon.

The laws on possessing dangerous items in public places seem to be the same in most western countries. The laws are written to make just about anything illegal so the law enforcement authorities have a lot of options. The authorities have taken the easy way out here.

In my opinion only criminal intent and criminal action should be illegal, not the mere possession of something that could be utilised in those criminal activities. Is it really necessary to give the law enforcement such powers?

Would any law enforcement officers comment on this? How would their work change if possession of "dangerous" items in public places was legal?

What if the law enforcement were given the right to confiscate such potentially dangerous items if they deem it necessary and the owner could have the item back after a 24 hour wait without further consequences? Thus hot headed people could be disarmed immediately without the need to prove criminal intent and law abiding citizens would not have to worry about getting into trouble with the law.
 
sasu, welcome to Bladeforums!

Once again, note the law in New York City, where this occurred: you must carry your knife concealed. Had GarageBoy done so, no police officer would have known or cared if he had a 2" blade or a 6" blade. "Out of sight, out of mind."

Sure 6" would become a problem if he needed to actually use it, so keeping it under the designated legal 4" is best.
 
tom19176 said:
The charge that was written on your universal summons (you got the pink criminal court part but this is the same paper work used for traffic ticket and parking tickets) was written as a violation of the NYC Admin Code and is in this case a violation.

In NY a conviction of a violation does not give you a criminal record as only Misd[emeanors] and Felonies are considered crimes in NY. Your best path here is to go to the court date and plead guilty. The fine will be between $50 to $75 ( but can got to $250), and you will pay it and get on with your life.

If you plead not guilty, and the ADA looks at the evidence, than the ADA has full authority to upgrade the charge to possession of a gravity knife.

As for all those who feel the Officers "stole" the knife...you are very wrong. The knife will be checked in as evidence ( a form is filled out and the knife will be in a zip lock bag with the form), if they wanted to add it to their collection it would have gone in their pocket and no paper work would have followed.
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Thank you! I want to repeat and highlight this, since it is the clearest desciption of GarageBoy's actual situation we have, and what he needs to do.
 
tom19176 said:
shootist16, this is a violation and therefore the maximun penality is 15 days in jail and or $250 fine....that said the normal fine for this as a first time offense is $25 to 50 fine and $25 court prosessing fee.....if he pleads not guilty and the ADA goes for the gravity knife cahrge then the max is 364 days in jail and I believe $5,000 fine.....
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But his true legal exposure is in sub (E) of the statute:


E. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment.

I personally would advise against pleading guilty; in any event I think a consultation with a lawyer who practices in this area of law is the best choice here.
 
rifon2, they seem to have upgraded the dollar fine, but the lenght of jail term defines the level of the offense in NY. A violation is up to 15 days, a misd up to one year ( there are A,B &C Levels), and a felony 1+ years. It of course would not hurt to speak to or engage a lawyer. You best bet may be to go to the court house (down town Brooklyn it seems per your details) and sit in the Summons Section of criminal court. You will hear several cases the same as your for sure, and see how they are disposed. As a member of the public you have this right. Do not bring any knife to court! The other good reason to do this is there are lawyers who are experts in certain sections of the court. Watch for the best lawyer and ask for his card. The lawyer who knows the court clerk(sits at the small desk next to the judge) is always the best lawyer to get as many of these minor cases are reviewed with the ADA prior to your name being called and the judge will already know that the ADA has worked out a plea with you.....
 
In my opinion only criminal intent and criminal action should be illegal, not the mere possession of something that could be utilised in those criminal activities. Is it really necessary to give the law enforcement such powers?
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There is a (century old IIRC) ruling in Delaware, which in no way pertains to this case, but explains the rationale behind the laws. In that ruling, the court said that the intention of the law is to keep people from (mis)using the implement in their less than sober moments.
 
You just got mugged and thats all there is to it, and trying to get it back will be painfully long and hard. The truth of it is, most cops let their jobs go to their heads and they think they can do what ever they please.

Reminds me of a time when some cop confiscated my brothers moped about 10 years ago. He said a full drivers license did not cover mopeds even though it does. And when he went to court he changed the story and of course no one believed my brother so its gone for good.

Good luck getting that son of a bitch.
 
tom19176 said:
Watch for the best lawyer and ask for his card. The lawyer who knows the court clerk(sits at the small desk next to the judge) is always the best lawyer to get
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Also known as the Court Attorney.

I was a Senior Court Attorney for New York State in my not too distant past. (Thankfully, no longer.)

Though when I was assigned to Criminal Court, Kings County, it was quite interesting.
 
Thanks guys. Don't wanna bring a lawyer into this, just gonna be me and the judge.

I really don't know what to say at this point, other than, screw this, I'm giving up on this hobby. No use in saving up for a custom anymore now that I can't carry it w/o getting grief..
 
Bob W said:
I checked one of my Buck 110 just now. Out of ten or fifteen attempts, it opened only once. Apparantly you have to 'flick' it just right.

-Bob
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It takes a good bit of "centrifugal" force as well. Unfortunately, the law in question qualifies neither the force or personal talent that might be required to open the knife, which was kind of my point. I think the law is ridiculous in it's stated intent as well as in it's actual application.
 
mrstenoien said:
hmmm...interesting that your gator is flickable...mine won't even budge in the slightest

also to all of you who are suggesting a legal recourse, it really sounds like according to the law he was completely at fault in this case, no questions about it. It doesn't matter that it's a sucky law, you can't try to get it changed after you've already broken it, you have to do that before hand. It also sounds like he was very lucky that he got off with only the one charge, although I do think he should look and see if there is any way that the judge could get him his knife back when he goes, that's where a note from his employer would come in handy. He could show the judge that he really does have a valid reason for carrying, and simply brought it that day out of habit.
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I may be mistaken, but I did not see anything at all in the specified code concerning the confiscation of the knife in the first place.
 
GarageBoy said:
Thanks guys. Don't wanna bring a lawyer into this, just gonna be me and the judge.

I really don't know what to say at this point, other than, screw this, I'm giving up on this hobby. No use in saving up for a custom anymore now that I can't carry it w/o getting grief..
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This saddens me. You save up and buy that custom. Carry and enjoy it. Just get one without a pocket clip and keep it deep in your pocket. We can't let this sort of thing be discouraging, just be more vigilant in keeping it from happening.

Hope all goes well for you before the judge.:thumbup:
 
GarageBoy said:
...I really don't know what to say at this point, other than, screw this, I'm giving up on this hobby. No use in saving up for a custom anymore now that I can't carry it w/o getting grief..
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I'm sorry to hear that. Collecting is a worthy hobby, and you don't need to carry a custom knife where the threat of confiscation is real. The joy of ownership is triggered even if you keep it on your dresser most of the time. As was already mentioned, urban carry a disposable user. I carry a Spydie Dragonfly TOOL, cheap on Ebay, because I bite my nails. It is not for defense, as even a big knife is useless for defense for most people in most situations. (Throw a chair or a potted plant and run, don't stand your ground with a knife.) It can ride in the bottom of my pocket if necessary, and I won't have angst should I loose it (as I did when I lost two previous more precious EDC's).

I have posted before that situational awareness is your best defense, not what you have in your pocket. This applies to your appearance as well as what you are looking at. If you look neat and conservative (and don't have a bit of knife showing) you are less likely to be hassled by anyone, including police.
 
I would say there is probably still a good chance of you getting it back, if you're respectful and don't rub the judge the wrong way, just be polite!
 
If there is not a charge that the knife in question is not legal then it would seem to be reasonable to request its return after the hearing. Since the summons is for carrying it in view then there is nothing that states it is not legal for you to own. Perhaps the judge could examine the knife and give his opinion of whetehr or not it is a gravity knife. If the answer is no then it would be reasonable to expect its return. It may be worth the question just to see if the officer who took the knife logged it as evidence and if now then where is it?


I think your age plays heavily into the situtation I would guess in the same situation someone my age (mid 30s) would have never been stopped or questioned.
 
CaptInsano said:
I may be mistaken, but I did not see anything at all in the specified code concerning the confiscation of the knife in the first place.
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It's in another part of the code.

Part of the work that a good lawyer does is finding all the relevant issues in her/his particular case,
then finding the laws - from cases, statutes, wherever they may be - that apply.

A lot of "nose to the grindstone" (ouch!!) kind of stuff.
 
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