WOT: bullpup hunting rifle

Y

yoippari

Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
341
Ever since I started playing counterstrike I thought the idea of a bullpup (the chamber is behind the trigger) hunting rifle would be at the very least interesting. Now I know that computer games are one of the worst places to get ideas for real life but I have put some thought into this and it might be doable.

My question is: does any one know of a bullpup with at least a 22" barrel chambered for any of the standard hunting calibers? I have seen a .50 bullpup muzzleloader but modern muzzleloaders are too much like cartrige rifles.

I ask here because there are some people here that are fairly knowlegable about firearms and I don't know of any good firearm forums.
 
Yoippari, is this just too be different?:cool: Otherwise there is no need for reinventing the wheel.:rolleyes: ;)
Seems there are laws on the books about where the chamber is in relation to the trigger or something else dumb but I'm not for certain.:confused:
I'm pretty sure all open bolt weapons are illegal for everyday use though?
 
Bushmaster used to make the M17 in 5.56mm. I've heard that it was pretty good; the problems I heard were that the handguard heated up very quickly and the sights are only good for a backup. I don't see it listed on their webpage anymore but I only checked briefly. I don't consider 5.56mm appropriate for hunting anything larger than coyotes but some states allow it.

I've seen conversions for the Ruger Minis and also Kalashnikovs. Israel had some bullpup conversions made up for their M14's but I've never seen one of those stocks for sale. I've seen a few homebrew conversions over the last few years too, mostly with SKS's. They'd work fine on the deer around here.

The trigger pull on most is generally considered to be poor on account of the complicated trigger assemblies. (For conversions, anyway.) Also, if you've ever seen a rifle explode, you'd be hesitant to put the action beneath your cheek. I've personally had an M48 let go on faulty milsurp ammo and got off lucky with a trashed pair of glasses, nicks and cuts and a permanent powder tattoo on my forehead. (And a 3-month flinch. :) ) I've seen an M16A3, FAL-style rifle, and an Enfield go boom as well at various times. In none of these cases was the shooter seriously hurt; I actually got it worse than the other guys did (as I would've lost my eyes had I not been wearing glasses) and I was still functional after the smoke cleared and the pieces came back down. The M16 shooter suffered a cut hand and powder burns. The FAL shooter caught a few brass fragments. The Enfield shooter got off with some bruises. The receivers in all cases, save the FAL, were badly ruptured. (The FAL's top cover was blown off forcefully though.) If any of us had been shooting a bullpup, we probably would've died or received a serious injury at the least. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the concept. ;)

I've never seen a dedicated hunting weapon built in this configuration - I'm not sure why this is. I don't believe it's a safety concern.
 
One of the concerns would be the location of hte ejection port. For those of us that aren't of the sinister set, it isn't an issue, but imagine a rifle in firing posistion on your right shoulder. Now imagine that same rifle on the other shoulder with the ejection port right at your chin...

The British current service rifle, and the AUG are both bullpup designs, and aren't very popular for that very reason, although they can both have their ejection ports switched, that requires a bit of time and effort. What does this have to do with sporting weapons? Easy, most if not all American sporting weapons are based on a military weapon.



AUG

L-85A1 Page down to the right writeup...

BTW let me add this, that second link is apparently to a game website, good information, but don't let the damage and range information throw you off.
 
Walther made a sniper rifle designated WA 2000 in .300 Win. Mag. and 7.62x51. It was very rare and expensive, not what one would take to the woods, but it was in a chambering worthy of hunting. Here's a link to a photo:
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm
 
The main advantage for the bullpup design is to shrink the overall length of the rifle without compromising barrel lengh.
 
Go get yourself a Ruger Mini-14 (223) or a Mini-30 (762 short).
Either one will work fine on deer and will never break or explode or anything else. the ruger Mini's are some of the best rifles in the world.
Mercenaries around the globe swear by them.


Then, get yourself a bullpup stock for it. I think Choate machine and tool makes one, but I know there are many fine bullpop stocks out there for the Mini 14 and Mini-30.

If you want to know what it looks like, go rent Total Recall.

You just cant go wrong with a Ruger Rifle.
 
You just cant go wrong with a Ruger Rifle.

A good gun for short range, I can get them to hit pretty solidly up to 50 yards, but the spread really opens up at 100 yards. Not my first choice in hunting rifles for wide open areas, but good for broken or overgrown areas where the shots are usually close in and fast.

n2s
 
The bullpup that gave me this idea is the styer aug. And the only thing keeping it from being used as a hunting rifle is the small caliber. I thought one might be able to be bored out to a .270 but then I figured that since it wasnt built for that size of cartridge there might be a safety hazard.

There is nothing in the oregon hunting regulations that restricts bullpups directly or indirectly. In fact .223 IS legal for all big game other than elk, big horn, and rocky mt. goat. However in my opinion a .223 is too small for any big game animal, they simply cant do enough damage with one shot to make me feel the animal will go down quickly.
 
I used to have an AWC G2, which is a bullpup M1A (semi M14).
Picture
Unfortunately, it is not a great rifle and I traded it off for a FAL. The trigger was actually pretty good, which is a rare thing for a bullpup since it has to have a linkage back to the rear of the chamber. The magazine was very difficult to change quickly. It was optics-only, and the large optic towers needed to clear the action made it tough to find a scope that would fit. It balanced oddly, and was always surprisingly heavy (it is a full M1A plus some extra trigger parts and sight towers in a very small package, it was just surprisingly dense). There's only a small section of forearm to put your off hand. It got really hot since the whole thing was action or barrel. There's probably some other stuff I've forgotten. Anyways, it was a rough bursting of a magazine-article-fueled desire for a AWC G2.

As for Ruger Mini-14 and -30... I would be most interested in seeing any evidence of mercenaries around the globe using them, besides the A-Team. Availability of magazines alone ("No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun" - Bill Ruger) is pretty negative.
 
There's a definite art to changing magazines quickly in an M14/M1A. I wouldn't want to try it in a bullpup configuration. :)

As for strong receivers, any rifle can explode given a bad dose of ammo. Mauser-style actions are known for their excellent strength and safety features. I still managed to blow one up. I've read message traffic about (although I've never seen this) M14's failing catastrophically. The receivers on those (along with just about every other part of the rifles, besides that front sight) are massively overbuilt. It can happen. Add budget-priced milsurp ammo into the mix and things get more complicated. The ammo I was using was experiencing slight hangfires and should've been condemned. Like a fool, I resolved to shoot off the entire box. I still shoot milsurp ammo but if it gives me problems or I can't tell where it was from and when it was made, it doesn't get shot, period. I also always wear eye protection. At the time I didn't always - I just happened to be wearing them that day - and they looked like they'd been sandblasted.

I was personally never aware of just how many bad rounds there are out there until I began working at a range. I'm present while literally tens of thousands of rounds go downrange each week. I've seen duds, hangfires (many hangfires), primers loaded in backwards, primers loaded in sideways, bullets loaded in backwards, bullets crimped improperly, and just about anything else imaginable. It happens. Fortunately, for the average sportsman, it happens so infrequently that they'll probably never witness it, and so much the better. Hangfires seem to be the most common one and the one I hate the most because of the pucker factor - when I open the action and hurl that round over the berm, there's about a two second window there where things can go ugly. I've never had a hangfire go off in my hands but I've seen that happen before too with a .50 BMG cartridge. The A-gunner was holding it properly (cradled in his hands, fingers not wrapped over it) as he was conveying it over the side of the ship and his flash gloves protected him from the worst of it - no real harm done, just a stinging sensation.
 
Gawd, I hate when you pull the trigger and nothing happens. I generally wait a goodly while and then dispose of ammo. It sure is tense.
 
the mini-14 was and still is used by private security people (mercs.)
Especially in Africa, it seems to be very popular with those guys.
The old Mini-14s came with 30 rd mags from the factory.
My personal fav was the AC556K
135ac40.jpeg
 
One of the things I have never been a fan of is plastic parts. I recognize the need for them in many applications (electronics, aero-space, military guns and tools) but not for hunting. This is personal preferance that while it wont keep me from buying a kershaw(sp?) 3-1 knife "system" it will keep me from loving it.

I have not been able to find a pretty wood bullpup rifle anywhere but that "muzzleloader" (which does not qualify as a muzzleloader in Oregon due to its internal ignition) I mentioned above. I wonder how much work is involved in putting a factory trigger/action in a home brew stock. It might be just another project to add to my ever growing list.

I have seen plenty of dud .22 shells. But the only time I was worried was when shooting a .50 muzzleloader that got gunked up. It isn't some thing that basic field cleaning fixes. We actually had to take a screw out under the nipple and use a pocket knife to clean it out. The gun shot just fine afterwards, but we can't shoot it repetetively and we never have broken it in.

I am not looking for a great rifle, I am looking for a hunting rifle that just happens to be a bullpup configuration. The legal magazine limit (semi auto) for hunting is 1+5.
 
Ive read some pretty discouraging things about the mini-14. All stuff to do with accuracy and feeding issues. Plus, the caliber is too low to do any real hunting. The lowest military caliber I would use would be the 7.62s.

I remember when the bullpup muzzleloader popped up, but I havent heard anything since.

Wasnt the first bullpup the french legions FA-MAS?
 
Mini 14:

Feeding issues are usually mag related, and as there are a host of mags out there for the mini, many cheap, it is not surprising.

Accuracy: Not as accurate as a AR, but I got 2" with the one's I've owned and a aquaintence took mine out of my hands one day and got an inch. Not typical? Probably, but Mini's dont jam in sand the way AR's do, which is probably why Danny says they were popular in AFrica. Relatively inexpensive and handy.

munk
 
Jebadiah_Smith said:
Wasnt the first bullpup the french legions FA-MAS?
Click to expand...

I believe the Brits had the first select-fire bullpup.

EM-2

As the author mentions, there have been bullpups even earlier than this. I haven't been able to find a reference to any that were selective fire or even semiautomatic, though.

Quite racy-looking for the late '40's, might I add...and it even has a wooden stock. :)
 
munk said:
Mini 14:

Feeding issues are usually mag related, and as there are a host of mags out there for the mini, many cheap, it is not surprising.

Accuracy: Not as accurate as a AR, but I got 2" with the one's I've owned and a aquaintence took mine out of my hands one day and got an inch. Not typical? Probably, but Mini's dont jam in sand the way AR's do, which is probably why Danny says they were popular in AFrica. Relatively inexpensive and handy.

munk
Click to expand...

The feeding problems I heard of all had to do with the action. I think it had something to do with extraction and frequent stovepiping. I dont remember exactly what because I stopped looking at mini-14s after I heard quite a few people describe the same problem.

Ive been looking at them because Michigan allows night time coyote hunting with nightvision scopes. The first rifles I looked at were mini-14s, but Im thinking its worth it to save for a bushmaster. There are alot of coyotes around here and they get into large groups at night, proving for some real potential fun,if anyone is wondering why we would need such potent medicine for coyotes ;) :p
 
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