Would a BM with axis lock be considered a "gravity knife"?

H

hexenmeister

Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
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I was just wondering...would a benchmade with an axis lock be considered a gravity knife? I've heard that it can be opened by "gravity" by pulling back the axis lock. If you do not use the axis lock, would it not be considered a gravity knife? Why do they have to have such retarted laws?
 
It would be qualified as one, but DO NOT Axis-Flick it in front of the masses. You know, they scare easily. :D

It's one of those pleasant loopholes we enjoy.
 
I believe that the AXIS lock was developed with advice from AKTI for the express reason of not interfering with knife laws. I bet it is still a very good idea not to do any song and dance routines in front of the authorities though. :)

-Duffin
 
don't know what design imputs may have come from AKTI... but according to Washington State laws and both King County and Seattle Municipal laws, if it were ever taken up, all BM Axis lock knives capable of inertial/centripital force opening are catagorized under the switchblade category.... And the only thing you need to do to make it less prone to consideration is to tighten the pivot pin so one can't easily snap it open...

Unfortuneatly, like parts of Texas and IIRC Illinois... the Onion/Kershaw Speed Assist openers may soon be so categorized...
 
So now that it's tightened up, it's slower or near impossible to bring out for SD. (if that's anyones purpose) therefore, the need for a nice, small fixed blade. No fuss, no muss, no intricate hand moves --- and no comparison to a switchblade or gravity knife! Everything is all better now.
 
hexenmeister said:
Yeah, I'll probably just tighten it up so there is no ambiguity.
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Woah! Hold on, man! Where do you live? Odds are very strong that the state laws are going to define what a switchblade is very carefully. I would do anything so drastic as to over-tighten a pivot pin without knowing if you even have to.

-Duffin
 
Boink said:
So now that it's tightened up, it's slower or near impossible to bring out for SD. (if that's anyones purpose) therefore, the need for a nice, small fixed blade. No fuss, no muss, no intricate hand moves --- and no comparison to a switchblade or gravity knife! Everything is all better now.
Click to expand...

Problem with this thought is that it is totally illeagal to carry a fixed blade within Seattle city limits (per Seattle Municipal Code.) Even something as simple as a Techna Ready-Edge (IIRC) is considered a fixed blade and illegal to carry.

And to Duffin: according to most laws in Cali, the BM Axislock knives are considered to be switchblades (or gravity knives) if they can be easily flicked open. Hence, if you want a nice stud opening custom folder, you'll find custom makers install a ball detente mechanism to inhibit inertial opening, and, IIRC, most commercial manufacturers must likewise install some design that inhibits such opening methods.

Which is why the speed assist openers actually conform to the law in that one must manually move the blade a few degrees before the mechanism takes over... And why it also qualifies in some jurisdictions as a switchblade - one operates a button, protrusion or lever to activate a mechanical opening action... and the flipper on the speed assists could be interpreted as a lever to assist in opening...

Man, why not one simple Federally based law on what is and what isn't allowed and where it can and can't be carried... :mad:
 
joeshredd said:
And to Duffin: according to most laws in Cali, the BM Axislock knives are considered to be switchblades (or gravity knives) if they can be easily flicked open.
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That's just not true.

653k said:
...
"Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
...
Click to expand...
In CA gravity knives are switchblades.

Statement of Legislative Intent said:
...
In order to ensure that only legitimate one-handed opening knives are covered, SB 274 narrows the language to only allow knives to fall under the exemption from the switchblade law if that one-handed opening knife contains a detent or similar mechanism. Such mechanisms ensure there is a measure of resistance (no matter how slight) that prevents the knife from being easily opened with a flick of the wrist. Moreover, a detent or other mechanism is prudent and a matter of public safety as it will ensure that a blade will not inadvertently come open.
Although some one-handed opening knives can be opened with a strong flick of the wrist, so long as they contact a detent or similar mechanism that provides some resistance to opening the knife, then the exemption is triggered. These knives serve an important utility to many knife users, as well as firefighters, EMT personnel, hunters, fishermen, and others utilize one-handed opening knives.
...
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An AXIS lock provides that resistance, even if it is slight, when opened in the appropriate fashion.

If you want, you may download the law sheet that I compiled for CA Here.

-Duffin
 
joeshredd said:
And why it also qualifies in some jurisdictions as a switchblade - one operates a button, protrusion or lever to activate a mechanical opening action... and the flipper on the speed assists could be interpreted as a lever to assist in opening...
Click to expand...

Massachusetts law reads:

"Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his
person, or carries on his person or under his control
in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case
which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn
at a locked position..."

Technically fingernail groves and thumb studs would enable a knife with a locking blade to be drawn into a locked position. So does my hand...
 
Ryan8 said:
Massachusetts law reads:

"Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his
person, or carries on his person or under his control
in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case
which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn
at a locked position..."

Technically fingernail groves and thumb studs would enable a knife with a locking blade to be drawn into a locked position. So does my hand...
Click to expand...

Ryan - "drawn at a locked position" is not the same as "drawn into a locked position"... The staute implies that the folder is already carried in an open and locked manner...

Duffin - I won't argue the law with you, but I do carry two BM Axis lockers everyday - pinch the handle between thumb and fore/index fingers, snap wrist and open. The Axis lock does not meet Cali's definition of a detente or retarding mechanism - the Axis lock serves only to lock the blade open - it does not impede nor inhibit the opening in the manner I described... Hence my statement that any Judicial body or Law Enforcement body can interpret the statute in any manner they can get away with... and when you say opened in the "appropriate manner"... who's to say what's appropriate? I showed my BM's to an officer who frequents the same pub I do; I asked him what he carried and then showed him mine... The first thing he did was to flick it open and then tell me that it was a legal size, but illegal to carry in that manner. However, this is the State of Washington, so our actual legal definitions vary. But in what you've posted, the BM does meet the legal definition of a switchblade... if the Prosecuting Attorney chose to pursue that course.
 
I think you have to consider the intent of the design. The axis lock is designed as a lock, to lock the blade open. A switchblade is designed to open when a button pushed; a gravity knife is designed to open with gravity. A hammer is designed to pound nails, if a person uses one to break a window it does not make all hammers a tool for committing burglaries.

BTW; I not sure if flicking a knife open with centrifical force is the same as gravity.
 
In California, opening it with centrifugal force (to overcome the bias towards closure) is not the same as a gravity knife. I agree with you, intent on design is part of it. Quite a few locks can be forced open and the knife allowed to swing freely. Lockbacks and frame locks, where the detent ball is on the locking arm, are a couple that come to mind right away. These knives would never be considered gravity knives, why not?

-Duffin
 
joeshredd said:
Ryan - "drawn at a locked position" is not the same as "drawn into a locked position"... The staute implies that the folder is already carried in an open and locked manner...
Click to expand...

I still don't understand it because it's so vague. Would an assisted-opening device be illegal? It seems like it, although the law may have originally been meant to criminalize push-button automatics and gravity knives.
 
Just a quick seconding of Duffin444's analysis. An Axis lock is not a switchblade under California law, as it has some form of detent or bias towards closing.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
I was just playing with my new 710HS and gave it a quick flick of the wrist with out holding the lock back and guess what? It flew open very easily. Hmmmmm.
 
They also planned to outlaw Spydercos in California (thank goodness it was overturned) because they can be opened "fast". :rolleyes:
 
Duffin444 said:
That's just not true.


In CA gravity knives are switchblades.



An AXIS lock provides that resistance, even if it is slight, when opened in the appropriate fashion.

If you want, you may download the law sheet that I compiled for CA Here.

-Duffin
Click to expand...
Hey Duffin, do you hvae an updated law sheet link?
 
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