Would it bother you?

Sounds like you have decided to send it back. I think that is the correct decision in this case. Small gaps in liners you have to hold the knife just right and look for don't bother me. These will be obvious and an irritation every time you use the knife. Get it fixed.
 
Yes, it would bother me. I expect better and I'm sure Bill Howard demands better. Yours slipped through.

As for some of the comments on expectations for production knives, my expectations are pretty high when it comes to Great Eastern Cutlery.

GEC aspires to a higher standard -- one that was common 75-100 years ago -- and we would be doing them and ourselves a disservice not to hold them to it.


Consider the knives that these men made and then ask yourself: If they could do it back then (well-past 100 years ago), given the tools and working conditions of that era, why can it not be done today and even better?


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(Pictures are from The Knife Makers Who Went West by Harvey Platts.)


... and the knives of the early 20th Century sold well below the price points (adjusted for inflation) that we see today.

So, yes, I expect better.
 
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"GEC aspires to a higher standard -- one that was common 75-100 years ago -- and we would be doing them and ourselves a disservice not to hold them to it."

Exactly MMM.

Best regards

Robin
 
MerryMadMonk said:
GEC aspires to a higher standard -- one that was common 75-100 years ago -- and we would be doing them and ourselves a disservice not to hold them to it.
Click to expand...

I understand that, and I agree with you. But several people have mentioned that they demand perfection. It seems like mine is a minority opinion, but perfection is an abstract concept, unattainable by human hands. It's a fine ideal to strive for, but expecting it is unrealistic.

GEC's knives are superior to anything made today. You can even say unmatched. But perfect? No one is that good.

- Christian
 
Codger_64 said:
Personally, if it bothered me, I would contact them, explain the problems, show the pictures and ask for return authorization for workmanship warranty repair. Both flaws should be a fairly easy fix for an accomplished cutler.
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That's what I would do too.
 
kamagong said:
I understand that, and I agree with you. But several people have mentioned that they demand perfection. It seems like mine is a minority opinion, but perfection is an abstract concept, unattainable by human hands. It's a fine ideal to strive for, but expecting it is unrealistic.

GEC's knives are superior to anything made today. You can even say unmatched. But perfect? No one is that good.

- Christian
Click to expand...

I have quite a few mid-price point knives which exceed the quality of build of the OP knife. It is not, IMHO, an unreasonable expectation to expect a better fit and finish on a knife such as the OP has shown. No one suggests going over it with tolerance gauges and a microscope. Glaring flaws that spell a reject are an entirely different matter. Repair or replace. Or openly state that there is no workmanship warranty.
 
Codger_64 said:
I have quite a few mid-price point knives which exceed the quality of build of the OP knife. It is not, IMHO, an unreasonable expectation to expect a better fit and finish on a knife such as the OP has shown. No one suggests going over it with tolerance gauges and a microscope. Glaring flaws that spell a reject are an entirely different matter. Repair or replace. Or openly state that there is no workmanship warranty.
Click to expand...

Better fit and finish is a very different thing from perfection.
 
MerryMadMonk said:
Yes, it would bother me. I expect better and I'm sure Bill Howard demands better. Yours slipped through.

As for some of the comments on expectations for production knives, my expectations are pretty high when it comes to Great Eastern Cutlery.

GEC aspires to a higher standard -- one that was common 75-100 years ago -- and we would be doing them and ourselves a disservice not to hold them to it.


Consider the knives that these men made and then ask yourself: If they could do it back then (well-past 100 years ago), given the tools and working conditions of that era, why can it not be done today and even better?

... and the knives of the early 20th Century sold well below the price points (adjusted for inflation) that we see today.

So, yes, I expect better.
Click to expand...

Thanks Al for those great pictures above---I could look at those all day :thumbup: True masters of their craft...

Paul
 
kamagong said:
Better fit and finish is a very different thing from perfection.
Click to expand...

...and I believe the over whelming majority here figured that's exactly what the OP meant, poor fit and finish. His use of the word "perfect" in no way detracted from what is the essential point of his problem as observed and understood by the majority here...the OP had an obviously defective knife that should have never been offered for sale to the retail public. You focused on this obscure and nebulous term of perfection, and instead, the OP should have been given the benefit of the doubt as to what he was really trying to say, that the fit and finish was just not right in his eyes, and obviously not right in the eyes of many here.
 
OP post.
"Just got a sawyer in ebony! I have 4 others that are basically customs there darn near perfect! But this one has a rolled edge on the back spring and a gap. Witch i'm just surprised by sense my others are so nice. Its got perfect centering, walk and talk, no blade play but those two little flaws are bothering me? So what would you do? Shut up and use it? send it back? sell it off?"

The word perfection was not used by the OP in his original post.

All he expected was what he got in the first Four barlows.

Regards

Robin
 
I wasn't talking about the OP. I was referring to the other posters who used the term. Am I reading too much into it, or do people really do expect perfection in a production knife?

It might seem trivial, but words have meaning. Casually throwing around terms like perfection creates impossibly high standards, which is a disservice to the community. You might not think so, but what about the new guy who reads about all these perfect GEC knives, but is disappointed when his new 15 is merely excellent?
 
I have very high standards. I expect everyone to to the job they are paid to do. They are paid to do it right every time and I expect it to be right every time. Do I expect a Tony Bose quality knife from a manufacturer? No but I do expect the fit and finish to be as good or better than we saw 100 years ago. With today's technology a skilled craftsman should be able to get the same or better fit and finish in much less time and with much less effort than 100 years ago.
 
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protourist said:
I have very high standards. I expect everyone to to the job they are paid to do. They are paid to do it right every time and I expect it to be right every time. Do I expect a Tony Bose quality knife from a manufacturer? No but I do expect the fit and finish to be as good or better than we saw 100 years ago. With today's technology a skilled craftsman should be able to get the same or better fit and finish in much less time and with much less effort than 100 years ago. They only thing keeping him or her from it is their work ethic.
Click to expand...

I am sure you a perfect worker, and complete your assignments absolutely right every time. It is a fact that others are unable to achieve your exemplary production. But to question their work ethic is uncalled for, and frankly, insulting. "These knives are made by people." quote from Bill Howard.
 
protourist said:
With today's technology a skilled craftsman should be able to get the same or better fit and finish in much less time and with much less effort than 100 years ago. They only thing keeping him or her from it is their work ethic.
Click to expand...

I fully expect this thread to get shut down soon so all I will say is Protourist hit the nail on the head. I see it every day.
Bob
 
Yeah, not to sway too far from the OP, but I too hate the top pin sunken in on GECs overall.
 
Back on track, please. The thread is not about work ethic or lack of. There are other places to discuss real or perceived social issues. It ain't here.
 
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"do people really do expect perfection in a production knife? "

Sure they do. Especially retentive knife nuts.

Is it reasonable. Absolutely not. The knives are made by humans. Swiss army knives are made by machines and are almost perfect. If you want a "traditional" pocket knive, it should be made by humans, with natural material for covers and thus will never be perfect...man and natural products are by nature imperfect.

The question to ponder is how much imperfection will a company tolerate and how much will their customers. Most GEC knives are too imperfect for me to ever buy...I hate sunken pins and consider them flaws. Many of their designs I consider "imperfect" because they are too thick and clunky...best example is their poor excuse for a toothpick.

The subject knife was obviously perfect enough for GEC or they would not have released it. This is not a failure of someone's "work ethic". To say as such a thing is insulting to the person who made the knife and their company. If a knife is flawed, this is could be due to the design, the materials, the production process, the finishing process or the final inspection...not due to a poor work ethic. These knives are not made from scratch by a single elf :)

There are those who always say "a few escape QC even in the best of companies." This is BS. Quality is from design to delivery, not just the QC step. A QC inspection is only to catch problems, not prevent them. Every company has an allowable failure rate and inpects just enough to cover this rate. When a company says "that one must have slipped by" they are lying. What they really should say is "we are not perfect, we are not making heart valves, for the cost/design/market some imperfections are expected, if you are dissatisified, we will try to help you."

For me, a knife given to me by a friend, wife or child is special and I will put up with a lot of imperfections as long as it is functional. A knife that I buy that is marketed as being top notch...Case Bose, I expect a lot more, but I don't expect the seamless bolster/liner that one would get from a custom. I've sent back a Case Bose for a cover that separated from a liner in high humidity. A regular Case, I'd expect a decent edge, good walk and talk, minimal gaps between liner and spring, no gaps between liner and cover. Any flaw I can fix myself, I will. I've never had a Case, Queen or S&M that was so poor it needed to be sent back. I've almost sent back a S&M due to an obtuse edge...but I fixed it myself. I have one Queen SFO with small gaps between the spring and liner, but my wife and son gave it to me and it's beutiful in all other ways. I have seen Case I would not buy.

If you want perfection, don't buy knives sight unseen. Go to a Brick and Mortar, gun show or knife show.
 
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We have not yet heard the response of the manufacturer to the problems pointed out by the OP. So speculation on their response is somewhat premature. The OP problems don't seem to be very promanent from this particular manufacturer at least judging from what I have seen in this forum. Maybe it is an anomoly and the manufacturer will stand behind it 100% with prompt repair or replacement, whichever they deem to be appropriate.
 
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