I came across a knife sharpened on one of those systems a few years ago in hunting camp, threw me a curve and made my eyes squint, a WTF moment until he told me what was up. I didn't have the stones, time or patience to fix it and it would have just messed him up the next time he sharpened it. I guess he should have packed that guided system with him.The short answer is that it doesn't. It's called a fixed angle system for a reason.
The long answer is that you might want to adjust the angle of the knife in the clamp so you get less angle change overall. Basically you draw a line from the point to the heel and you make that line parallel to the front of the clamp.
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Wouldn't this take the fun out of sharpening ?
- Thread starter Letoff
- Start date
That's right , most guided systems are fixed .. Now depending on the system , there is some wiggle room ..
Other systems have zero wiggle room .. So the angle is fixed ..
But once your knife is sharpened , that's it .. It's set to that system . ( Like it / Dont like it )
The wet stone grinder is some what variable by where the knife is clamped .. And allows for tuning the belly . curve as you desire ..
The guided system will generally tighten the bevel edge as you get to the tip ''
So if the main part of the flat blade is say 20 degrees , as you get to the tip it might tighten to 18 degrees ..
I found it to be around 2 degrees , depending on the size of the blade . Big blades will vary more than smaller blades .
So a 4 inch blade will vary less than a 7 inch blade .. Again it depends on the system and how you set up the knife and the size of the knife .
You do what works for you ...... ( Ill never say different ) ..
But for those that struggle with sharp , guided systems are like a Game Hack ( cheat ) . It will get you where you want to be with less effort and more consistent results ..
& If you knife stays sharp longer , then winner / winner / Chicken dinner !
The less you sharpen your knife , the longer it will last . The less material you need remove to get sharp , the longer your knife will last .
The worst abuse a knife usually gets , is when it is sharpened . ( Ware & tare ) ..
Most knives die as a result of sharpening ..
Incorrectly / over / abused / what ever sharpening ..
It is a given that some knife steels are rubbish and as a result will require more work to stay sharp ..
But still .. I recommend what ever will work , for a person . There is no one way , the way to sharpen is the way that works for you .
If it's not working ( see pictures ) , then :
Other systems have zero wiggle room .. So the angle is fixed ..
But once your knife is sharpened , that's it .. It's set to that system . ( Like it / Dont like it )
The wet stone grinder is some what variable by where the knife is clamped .. And allows for tuning the belly . curve as you desire ..
The guided system will generally tighten the bevel edge as you get to the tip ''
So if the main part of the flat blade is say 20 degrees , as you get to the tip it might tighten to 18 degrees ..
I found it to be around 2 degrees , depending on the size of the blade . Big blades will vary more than smaller blades .
So a 4 inch blade will vary less than a 7 inch blade .. Again it depends on the system and how you set up the knife and the size of the knife .
You do what works for you ...... ( Ill never say different ) ..
But for those that struggle with sharp , guided systems are like a Game Hack ( cheat ) . It will get you where you want to be with less effort and more consistent results ..
& If you knife stays sharp longer , then winner / winner / Chicken dinner !
The less you sharpen your knife , the longer it will last . The less material you need remove to get sharp , the longer your knife will last .
The worst abuse a knife usually gets , is when it is sharpened . ( Ware & tare ) ..
Most knives die as a result of sharpening ..
Incorrectly / over / abused / what ever sharpening ..
It is a given that some knife steels are rubbish and as a result will require more work to stay sharp ..
But still .. I recommend what ever will work , for a person . There is no one way , the way to sharpen is the way that works for you .
If it's not working ( see pictures ) , then :
I know that look, I think my mom still has one...That's right , most guided systems are fixed .. Now depending on the system , there is some wiggle room ..
Other systems have zero wiggle room .. So the angle is fixed ..
But once your knife is sharpened , that's it .. It's set to that system . ( Like it / Dont like it )
The wet stone grinder is some what variable by where the knife is clamped .. And allows for tuning the belly . curve as you desire ..
The guided system will generally tighten the bevel edge as you get to the tip ''
So if the main part of the flat blade is say 20 degrees , as you get to the tip it might tighten to 18 degrees ..
I found it to be around 2 degrees , depending on the size of the blade . Big blades will vary more than smaller blades .
So a 4 inch blade will vary less than a 7 inch blade .. Again it depends on the system and how you set up the knife and the size of the knife .
You do what works for you ...... ( Ill never say different ) ..
But for those that struggle with sharp , guided systems are like a Game Hack ( cheat ) . It will get you where you want to be with less effort and more consistent results ..
& If you knife stays sharp longer , then winner / winner / Chicken dinner !
The less you sharpen your knife , the longer it will last . The less material you need remove to get sharp , the longer your knife will last .
The worst abuse a knife usually gets , is when it is sharpened . ( Ware & tare ) ..
Most knives die as a result of sharpening ..
Incorrectly / over / abused / what ever sharpening ..
It is a given that some knife steels are rubbish and as a result will require more work to stay sharp ..
But still .. I recommend what ever will work , for a person . There is no one way , the way to sharpen is the way that works for you .
If it's not working ( see pictures ) , then :
They still make them ! .. From around $15 to $300 , maybe more ...
There are quite a few electric sharpeners on the market , and I wish I had the $$ Bananas to buy them all .. ( Republic Bananas )
Im talking about disposable income ( as in throwing money away ) .
There are several sharpeners that look like they might actually sharpen a knife , especially horizontal sharpeners . ( Used much like a wetstone )
?? How good are they , are they a PITA to use , results ? What sized knives will they handle ?
Smiths ---- Hehehehehe , oh dear ! I guess copying is a form of flattery ? But this design is getting a following from manufacturers , much like frame and liner locks ..
I would like to own them all ! Then review them one by one ! That would be a hell of a thing .
Horizontal 1 and I have never seen this one before ...
As I think about, one of the few guided sharpeners that will allow you to maintain a consistent angle on curved blades is also one of the cheapest. That's the DMT Knife Sharpening Guide, which sells for around $15. Hapstone makes a fancier version, too.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2023
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- 38
Guided sharpeners limit what you can do in sharpening a knife vs freehand. You get no feedback from the blade and stone or whatever medium you are sharpening on. I sharpen by feel as much as by angle. With freehand, you can feel the burr, feel the imperfections, feel the chips or bends in the blade. You can't do that with guided sharpeners. As was pointed out, you can't do curves correctly - even minor curves. And lastly, you have developed no skill. The mechanism provides the skill....you just are going along for the ride. And you have to take it with you everywhere you plan on having to sharpen a knife. No thanks.
Hu? Feel the bur ? Hell yeah guided sharpening lets U feel the bur . U can feel the smallest bur . More than enough feedback ..
Seriously ? Where do people get this stuff from ? ( Yeah , I won't go there )
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- 38
I have to respectfully disagree. You don't have the same sensitivity with a guided sharpener because you aren't holding the knife - the sharpener is. That deadens much of your feedback.
SwissHeritageCo
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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These sharpening systems are getting out of hand...
Everything has its plusses and minuses. Freehand certainly gives you the most versatility, and portability, but no matter how good you are, it's never going to give you the perfect bevel that you can get on a fixed angle system. And of course it takes a lot of practice to achieve even a passably flat bevel. Fixed angle systems provide remarkable results with relatively little experience, but they can be pricey and they don't give you the ability to vary your angle to match the curvature and thickness of a grind. Belt sanders are very fast and can produce sharp edges, but you always have to be mindful of heat. Wet grinders are second fastest and have no heat issues, but they produce concave bevels and they also struggle with curved blades.
I want ALL OF THEM.
I want ALL OF THEM.
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- 982
A rig does not choose a finer edge for a push cutter in kitchen knives while choosing a coarser edge for a general purpose knife used out and about. That is the knowledge of the sharpener matching their uses to their usage and taste.
Are you saying an unpowered system - remember you said replicate affordably - can deal with steels that a person with a diamond plate cannot?
As far as sharpening quickly, I don't have a great tolerance for dull knives. They don't take that long to sharpen. I'm sure that for a knife that needs bevels set, a grinder is fast, but that also costs more than a diamond stone.
I get plenty of feedback .. I have no idea what your talking about ?
Hu ? What the hell are you talking about .. ( Wet Stone sharpening - Diamond is better than stone for High Performance Steel ) ........ I have never said anything different .
Personally I highly recommend DIAMOND , plate or otherwise .. I will always recommend DIAMOND .
I have 4 Diamond plates myself , just to get back to basics .. 600 / 1000 / 2000 / 3000 grit diamond plates .
I have a very old (70s ) Imperial Ireland ( slip joint ) .. A very small knife , did they call them peanut ?
Anyways , the blade is too small for anything but hand sharpening on a stone or Diamond plate ..
The knife was thrown in a Drawer and a few weeks ago found . So ? 40 something years bouncing around the bottom of a drawer never used ..
I was cleaning and found it !
So I took it and put it to the diamond plate to see if I could still hand sharpen ... I needed to try out the diamond plate anyways ..
Looking at the edge under magnification , it did come out convexed . But it is a very small knife with a small blade ( challenging ) .
But I did it with little trouble . It took a little work , if anyone knows what those old factory edges were like and not the best steel .
So I can still hand sharpen .
So > Before people BS the hell out of me !
A) I highly recommend DIAMOND cutters / plates / stones - Call them what you will , DIAMOND is no1
B) Guided sharpening , yes .. Two Thumbs Up from Me .
C) Free hand sharpening , sure , have at it !
D) Is free hand the best , I don't think so . It might be the oldest way of sharpening . But this is 2023 , and there is a reasonable possibility that free hand has been surpassed .
E) I am prepared to put it to the test , put my money where my mouth is , put my edge to the rope so to speak . I have no fear of testing my edges ! ( U should know that by now )
My hobby / interest is EDGE lore ! ( Testing edges ) .. Am I an expert = Hell no ! I would never .. I am a learner , trying to learn something every day ..
But BS gets my GOAT !
Feedback to me can be sight, sound and feel or all of those together. It's what makes sharpening an enjoyable experience for many, combined with stone or slurry manipulation and pressure.
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- 1,105
I agree with you if you are sharpening 1 or 2 knives it's more fun but if you had a sharpening service and did 50 knives in a day I would get one of those and more so if I was doing a lot of kitchen knives.
Why do people / think / imagine / that there is no feedback ?
There is plenty of feedback ..
It's like driving a car !
If you have driven a car for say 12 months , then you most likely have a intimate relationship with the vehicle .
If you have driven a car for 12 minutes , you most likely don't feel / know / anything at all about that car .
777 Edge
Dealer / Materials Provider
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I love both hand sharpening with bench stones, and sharpening on my guided systems. I can get equally sharp edges (but NOT equally accurate) both ways but there is no way a human hand can perfectly match the exact angle of a jig. Bench stone sharpening is rewarding, enjoyable and a skill worth having - but so is using a guided sharpening system. You can get just as much (if not more) feedback from a guided system as you can from a bench stone. Holding a very light and small stone in your hand and carefully moving it over the blade in a guided system gives a huge amount of feedback.
The reason why the best knife makers don't just simply freehand and eyeball their knives when they grind and make them, is because we do live in the 21st century. Using a jig and a grinder or even a CNC machine yields much better results. Yes, you can make a nice knife without any modern tools and jigs, but why on earth would you if you had the choice...? If you start looking at the details, that knife will most definitely be far below the standard of even a cheap modern knife.
The same thing applies to many things. Build your house without any tools, jigs, levels or measurements and it will still be a house...a pretty rough one though.
If you buy a modern high quality knife that's been made to incredibly high tolerances, standards and quality, using modern steels (also manufactured with modern methods), then it deserves perfection when it comes to working on its edge.
Again, I'm not saying bench stones don't have their place - they do and like I said I still love using them, but using a modern knife sharpening system will yield far more accurate results.
The reason why the best knife makers don't just simply freehand and eyeball their knives when they grind and make them, is because we do live in the 21st century. Using a jig and a grinder or even a CNC machine yields much better results. Yes, you can make a nice knife without any modern tools and jigs, but why on earth would you if you had the choice...? If you start looking at the details, that knife will most definitely be far below the standard of even a cheap modern knife.
The same thing applies to many things. Build your house without any tools, jigs, levels or measurements and it will still be a house...a pretty rough one though.
If you buy a modern high quality knife that's been made to incredibly high tolerances, standards and quality, using modern steels (also manufactured with modern methods), then it deserves perfection when it comes to working on its edge.
Again, I'm not saying bench stones don't have their place - they do and like I said I still love using them, but using a modern knife sharpening system will yield far more accurate results.
Last edited:
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- 1,105
I don't think it's a case of there wouldn't be any feedback but it would be a different feeling then sharpening the traditional way with a guided system where you can feel the different feedback from different stones.
My guess is that all you may feel with this gadget is the spinning of the stone and that's about it.
I agree with that. Well, other than custom knives being made with modern tools. IMO, that's purely a time/cost saving measure. I've seen knives made by hand tools that would blow you away, but took many man hours of pain-staking attention to detail to get to the finished product. Same with the analogy of the house. True craftspeople/artists will make sure it is perfect before they call it finished.
I will say that if you are a skilled free hand sharpener then you can match the sharpness of any guided system if you are taking your time and making sure of it. With experience that process becomes easier and faster as well.
The only difference at that point is that the bevels will look a little(or a lot) "prettier" with a guided system.
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I can't disagree with you that grinding belts and CNC machines are better than sharpening freehand. But at what cost and what level of practicality? If I had a Burr King or CNC machine at my disposal I most likely wouldn't be free hand sharpening much. Where I used to work, the CNC machines where a million and a half dollars each. Burr Kings are thousands and even the entry level belt sanders are out of the average knife owners means. And the sharpening systems that I have seen (although I'm probably not very current) are not those machines. I have simply not been impressed with any sharpening system I have seen that is affordable for sharpening a few knives.
But even good sharpening systems are not without their flaws. I know of several logging pros that sharpen their chainsaws daily that can do a better job than the chainsaw chain sharpening machines that dealers have to sharpen chains for their customers. The problem isn't the angle, but the length of time the grinders are working on the chain. You try for the same number of seconds per link and if your timing is off just a smidgen, some cuts are deeper than others and if too long by more than a second, the steel is over-heated and ruined. The hand sharpeners don't have those problems. Of course knives are different but it does show the type of limitations these systems can have.