WOW Parks#50!!!!!!

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
5,060
WOW. JUST PLAIN WOW. Thanks to my buddy Joe (Marsillo), I got to try out some Park's#50 last friday and WOW! the results are amazing, it's so consistent, and it cools the steel so fast I swear I am DONE, D-O-N-E with peanut or vegetable oil or any of the cooking oils or ATF or motor oil, what a waste of time compared to the real thing. As soon as Darren get's his place all cleaned up and ready and the PK50 back on order, I am putting in an order for about 10 gallons of the #50 as well as the AAA! I think the best thing is THE SMELL, it's unbeleivable! with fry or motor oil you are choked out of the shop gagging with the smoke and stench, but the park's has a very pleasant smell. On the TOOLS TO GET list for any beginner, a proper quench oil is as important as an anvil or hammers/tongs and the fire, GET SERIOUS AND DITCH THE FRY OILS OR ATF/MOTOR OIL:jerkit:, you will see the difference the very VERY first time:thumbup:. I was admittedly a bit skeptic beforehand, but now seeing firsthand the difference it makes I am a beleiver!
 
Ahh dang I missed the sound (too much going on)! I sure do wish I could get the smell in a cologne spray though:D.
 
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every time i get the real "right tool" for the job i wander how the hell i got away with making (you name it ) with the halfassed tools i had been using

oo and yes the sound is cool
 
Man I hate it when people who don't know dick use the jerk off emoticon. You try something once then spread all over the place that anything else is Just playing with yourself!! Traditional brine works best for a japanese sword... More activity in the hamon and watching the blade curve from the quench itself is the best and having to precurve to use parks is ok but not THE way. I'm sure the parks 50 is great for knives. What happens when you are quenching very long double edge blades and you get a warp? Without that window to straighten while still hot from a 400 degree peanut oil quench, you might be screwed and then have to use hot straightening techniques. Use what works for you, but don't tell me it is the only thing!
 
Odinblades said:
Man I hate it when people who don't know dick use the jerk off emoticon. You try something once then spread all over the place that anything else is Just playing with yourself!! Traditional brine works best for a japanese sword... More activity in the hamon and watching the blade curve from the quench itself is the best and having to precurve to use parks is ok but not THE way. I'm sure the parks 50 is great for knives. What happens when you are quenching very long double edge blades and you get a warp? Without that window to straighten while still hot from a 400 degree peanut oil quench, you might be screwed and then have to use hot straightening techniques. Use what works for you, but don't tell me it is the only thing!
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My friend.....you are assuming that you cannot straighten a blade that has been quenched in Parks. Not true. I have done it a couple of times. What Parks does extremely well is get the temp below the nose of the curve almost as fast as water, but with less stress. Some folks say that it "stalls" a bit below that point. All i know is that I can take a W2 or 1084 blade out after around 10 seconds and straighten it by hand wearing the gloves that came with me Paragon. Maybe a little messier than brine, but much lower likelihood of the dreaded "ping":D As ofor being the "only" thing, well it is one of two "only things" as far a very high speed oils go. Houghton supposedly makes a very similar oil, but we have been able to get Parks for a little while. Even a relatively fast 11-13 second oil like Tough Quench, which is a Houghton product with a Brownells lable, you may not totally harden a fully quenched blade of W2 and end up with an "accidental" hamon that probably wasn't what you had in mind. found that out the hard way a few times even with Tough Quench heated to 150F which is it's fastest "sweet spot".
 
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I have to agree Sam, the parks is good stuff. GREAT for hamons. As for odinblades, I see Joe has already beat me too it. No parks is not the only thing for quenching, Sam did not say it was, and yes you can straighten blades while still hot from the parks. You do not get sori from the quench with parks, but I just adjust the curve before heat treating . Oh and by the way the traditional japanese quench medium is WATER, not brine. I am not even going to comment on the other remarks. So odin have you actually used parks 50? Inquiring minds want to know.

Brion
 
400F peanut oil? You sure you want to stick with that counter when pooh poohing a quenching oil? This is not to say that some folks haven't had some good results with normal quenching into peanut oil, but attempting a marquench into it heated beyond its extraction rate is hardly a clear winner over Parks #50. Unless one uses some very deep hardening steels I would expect to see around 1/4" of mixed microstructure at the edges with the bulk of the blade being pearlitic and prone to bending. Most of the top guys doing katanas seem to prefer just clean water over brine.

John I don't believe Sam was telling specifically you, but once again your private tinkling match with him has you splattering whole groups of people who don't really much appreciate it.
 
Allow me to play devils advocate however, Parks #50 has it limitations, I will continue to say that if one wishes to edge quench it and many other quench oils are little more than a waste of money. It is too fast for deeper hardening alloys, and is increasingly harder to get your hands on. So indeed it is not the end all of quenchants and Houghton does indeed offer many fine oils the equivalent of Heat Bath products. It would certainly be miserable if over heated so it would not make a good medium for marquenching in the traditional sense, however if I had my low temp salts (Parks thermoquench- that stuff along with special oils specifically designed for martempering), taken away and had to quench a sword of any 10XX series or W2, I would simply interrupt the quench into good old 120F Parks #50 slightly above Ms and do the same straightening and gently cooling I would if using a 400F medium, and have the peace of mind that I beat the pearlite nose in the bargain.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Allow me to play devils advocate however, Parks #50 has it limitations, I will continue to say that if one wishes to edge quench it and many other quench oils are little more than a waste of money. It is too fast for deeper hardening alloys, and is increasingly harder to get your hands on. So indeed it is not the end all of quenchants and Houghton does indeed offer many fine oils the equivalent of Heat Bath products. It would certainly be miserable if over heated so it would not make a good medium for marquenching in the traditional sense, however if I had my low temp salts (Parks thermoquench- that stuff along with special oils specifically designed for martempering), taken away and had to quench a sword of any 10XX series or W2, I would simply interrupt the quench into good old 120F Parks #50 slightly above Ms and do the same straightening and gently cooling I would if using a 400F medium, and have the peace of mind that I beat the pearlite nose in the bargain.
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Goods points as usual, Kevin. My VERY limited experience is that, because of the possible "plateau" in the cooling curve of the Parks once it gets below the nose, you have and should take more time before pulling it out of the oil than you might think. I count to ten at a moderate pace and that seems to work fine on W2. No more "accidental hamons", no "self tempering" (if that phenomenon actually exists..lol) and plenty of heat left in the blade to straighten it before full martensite formation. And best of all, no PING.......so far:D The other great thing is that, at least at this time of year in Florida, you don't absolutely have to heat the stuff up because it is always going to be at least 15-20 degrees (and sometimes more) above the manufacturers minimum temp of 70F. I have 5 gallons.......well, what is left of 5 gallons after little spills, etc.....and if I am quenching more than one blade, I will do a thinner one first and heat the oil a little bit for the thicker blade. I have only had to actually heat it once and that was on a 55 degree day in January. I brought it up to over 100F.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
400F peanut oil? You sure you want to stick with that counter when pooh poohing a quenching oil? This is not to say that some folks haven't had some good results with normal quenching into peanut oil, but attempting a marquench into it heated beyond its extraction rate is hardly a clear winner over Parks #50. Unless one uses some very deep hardening steels I would expect to see around 1/4" of mixed microstructure at the edges with the bulk of the blade being pearlitic and prone to bending. Most of the top guys doing katanas seem to prefer just clean water over brine.

John I don't believe Sam was telling specifically you, but once again your private tinkling match with him has you splattering whole groups of people who don't really much appreciate it.[/QUOT You can expect all you want Kevin, and don't tell me of the top guys, you're talking to the top guy! I don't give a crap who appreciates it. It is you who pooh pooh's a quenching oil. I'm saying don't call me a jerk off for doing things my way, just cause you found some miracle oil that any idiot can use. There are techniques involved with all quenchants, if you can't learn them I guess you need parks
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Hi Friends (and antagonists),

I have it on three counts, Parks 50 would be some good quenching medium for me to look into.
  1. Sam the enthusiast: is moved by the experience of P50 to such an extent he shares some news about his previous quenches /quenching and concludes P50 is good stuff for beginners.
  2. Kevin the highly informed and experienced: says P50 is good quench, as are others.
  3. Odinblades the confrontational: says P50 is for any idiot (that's me).
So there I have it, three folks highly recommend P50 for a bloke like me. I know I'll still need to figure a bunch of quenching stuff out, but with BF cyber friends (and others) there's hope yet.

Whoohoo, thanks guys, Phil
 
Farmer Phyl said:
Hi Friends (and antagonists),



I have it on three counts, Parks 50 would be some good quenching medium for me to look into.
  1. Sam the enthusiast: is moved by the experience of P50 to such an extent he shares some news about his previous quenches /quenching and concludes P50 is good stuff for beginners.
  2. Kevin the highly informed and experienced: says P50 is good quench, as are others.
  3. Odinblades the confrontational: says P50 is for any idiot (that's me).
So there I have it, three folks highly recommend P50 for a bloke like me. I know I'll still need to figure a bunch of quenching stuff out, but with BF cyber friends (and others) there's hope yet.

Whoohoo, thanks guys, Phil
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:D :D :D ROTFLMAO :D :D :D

I love you Farmer Phyl :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
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Odinblades said:
You can expect all you want Kevin, and don't tell me of the top guys, you're talking to the top guy! I don't give a crap who appreciates it. It is you who pooh pooh's a quenching oil. I'm saying don't call me a jerk off for doing things my way, just cause you found some miracle oil that any idiot can use. There are techniques involved with all quenchants, if you can't learn them I guess you need parks
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John, I've seen your stuff on swordforums, and you make nice swords, but you've got some major issues. The chip on your shoulder is big enough to see from here. Lighten up! If Sam (or anyone else) wants to think that P50 is better than any other quenchant, that's their right and privilege! Don't take it so personally. They're just as entitled to their opinion as you are.
 
Farmer Phyl said:
Hi Friends (and antagonists),

I have it on three counts, Parks 50 would be some good quenching medium for me to look into.
  1. Sam the enthusiast: is moved by the experience of P50 to such an extent he shares some news about his previous quenches /quenching and concludes P50 is good stuff for beginners.
  2. Kevin the highly informed and experienced: says P50 is good quench, as are others.
  3. Odinblades the confrontational: says P50 is for any idiot (that's me).
So there I have it, three folks highly recommend P50 for a bloke like me. I know I'll still need to figure a bunch of quenching stuff out, but with BF cyber friends (and others) there's hope yet.

Whoohoo, thanks guys, Phil
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I'm with ya here buddy:thumbup::D Will definantly be trying some of this stuff out. SAM thanx for the recomendation! ;) To Mr Cashen and everyone else Thanks for the metalurgy lessons, recently I've learned much in a short amount of time.
 
It is the first post that I have issues with. I appologize to the rest of you. I also would use parks for many applications. If I did, I would not go on a forum and tell people they were jerking off for what they were doing, especially someone who has spent a year in his shop teaching me. Now I have pissed off a ton of smith's again with this big fat chip on my shoulder.
 
Odinblades said:
It is the first post that I have issues with. I appologize to the rest of you. I also would use parks for many applications. If I did, I would not go on a forum and tell people they were jerking off for what they were doing, especially someone who has spent a year in his shop teaching me. Now I have pissed off a ton of smith's again with this big fat chip on my shoulder.
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You havent pissed off a bunch of smiths John.

But....If you have a personal problem with someone on this forum, Please keep it private.

I dont allow pissing matches.

Mark
 
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