WSK/Tracker Design Help/WIP

NeilJBorja · Mar 6, 2015

Customer approved the design. I have some 1/8" mild steel scrap in my university shop, so I think I might water jet out the planned blade profile with the lightening holes in the tang, put the handle in a vise, and whack the blade a bunch with some scrap wood/aluminum and see how the handle performs. Obviously it'll be much weaker than 3/16 O1 and clamping up the handle and hitting the spine is probably worse than regular batonning, but I guess it's an extreme stress test. It'll also be a good chance to get a rough idea of how the thing feels in hand.

NeilJBorja · Mar 8, 2015

I water jetted a full size dummy of the blade out of 3/16" mild steel. The water jet screwed up the first hole so I drilled it through, but no big deal. It gave me a pretty good idea at the heft and feel of the knife in hand (which I'm actually very happy with). It's still quite a fat prybar.

I clamped it up by the handle and whacked the blade a bunch with an aluminum tube (it was about 1.5" square x 0.095" thick I'd guess).

I did, however, use much more conservative cutouts than before. I think I'm ready to run this out of O1 (when it arrives), though I'll make the profile oversize and the holes undersize so I can finish them up with drill bits and a die grinder for the lightening holes. Hopefully the water jet doesn't screw anything up, since the one in my shop is admittedly pretty squirrely.

jdk1 · Mar 8, 2015

I really like the looks of that:thumbup: I think the minimal cutouts would make me feel better using it roughly as well. You did an awesome job designing this bad boy! I can't wait to see how it turns out. If you're interested in making two, please shoot me an email or message

I have a small knife budget, but it would make a nice companion to my beastly Tops TB1. Again, great job and keep us posted!

trentu · Mar 9, 2015

It looks very nice. I would love to have a waterjet at my disposal. I think the smaller cutouts are a lot better design. You did a fine job with that so far. Can't wait to see how your 1/4 round turns out.

NeilJBorja · Mar 13, 2015

Thanks for the encouragement guys. jdk1 I saw your custom leather sheath for your tracker, pretty good stuff!
Anyways, since I figure this project will take a little while, I better update it frequently or else I'll forget to document anything.

Water jet 2 blanks today, with just a hair of material to spare. Two blanks just in case I screw up/decide to do a second one, since I don't expect to use 3/16" stock for any of my personal knives anytime soon.

Was playing around with scribing some jimping. I think I'll try doing it with a triangular needle file on my mild steel dummy blank and see how I like it.

Was also playing around with the lanyard I plan on attaching. Need to use better knots on the real thing.

NeilJBorja · Mar 31, 2015

Just wanted to post an update (if anything just to keep myself from forgetting this thread!). Finally got around to making myself a file guide (boy, 3" x 0.5" x 0.5" looked so much bigger on the screen!), hoping to harden it soon and use it to test out Brownell's ATP-641 and see just how nice of a finish it leaves after quenching. Currently have way too many irons in the fire though, so all the knives I'm working on are all slowly crawling along.

NeilJBorja · Apr 5, 2015

Epoxied white G10 Liners to Lightning Strike CF. Afterwards I flattened them on a machinist's block and super glued them together.

Trued up the rough water jet edges with a smooth cut file. The big bench vise in the student shop I do a lot of my work in just crapped out recently so I've had to get creative with how I clamp things.

Hit the blade blanks with some Dykem and scribed my grind lines. Lesson learned: don't use Dykem in a closed, cramped college dorm room!

Scribed edges to get a target thickness of 0.020". I figure I'd probably accidentally go past that after draw filing and sandpaper anyways.

Scales had their holes drilled and roughed out on the band saw. Also had their front edges ground on my HF 1 x 30. If I'm still awake, I might get the front edge of the scales to final polish before popping them apart. To the left is the cut off scrap from the scales, which I figured I could use for a stacked handle or something somewhere down the road. I was a little worried since the epoxy gave before the super glue when I was hammering them apart. I'll have to be careful when I do that with the actual scales. On the right are a pair of walnut/blue and red stabilized maple burl that I'm going to use for new handles for a $20 Walmart kitchen knife. Talk about lipstick on a pig, but it has a bit of sentimental value since it was from a kitchen set that was one of the first things my family bought when we first moved to the US, and all the other parts of the set (paring knife, utility knife, scissors) are all lost/destroyed except for the kitchen block.

Using the new filing jig. Holds up pretty well, but there's more of a learning curve to it than I expected

Had to fiddle around a lot with offsetting the filing jig since the plunge would always start at the jig, so the actual full depth cut would be 1/8" or so forward of the jig.

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Still not sure what I'm going to do about the quarter rounder.

The sharp belly on the tracker doesn't quite play nice with my filing jig since it was designed for my folders with a more gentle belly, so I still need to freehand clean everything up with more filing.

Edge thickness was 0.050-0.040 before I turned in for the night, so I'll have to go back and get rid of some more meat. This filing jig also doesn't quite handle the obtuse primary bevel of the chopping portion, but more whining won't solve it, only more filing

coldsteelburns · Apr 6, 2015

This is turning out to be pretty cool! If I was making that blade and had to get that corner round in there, I would use a "larger" round file that was just a tad smaller than the radius on the corner (or same size if you could find one) and just free hand in a bevel right there in the corner (down to the scribed edge and up to the scribed bevel height) as if you were filing in a bevel on a guthook. Next, I would file in the "draw knife" section of the bevel and then just blend them in together freehand. Don't forget about draw filing, if just might be your friend when doing the blending. Also, try not to think of it as "grinding in bevels on a blade", which tends to make people (myself included at times lol) feel more intimidated when going about it it, but think of it as if you're just 'slowly' carving away and shaping a small amount of steel with some files and sandpaper. If you put your mind in more of a "sculpting" mindset, it may help you see things differently. This may or may not help lol, but I'm just thinking how I would go about getting that corner round just right.. Do whatever you need to do and use whatever you have that will help, don't have your mind stuck into thinking you need to go about it the way most knives are made. it might inhibit creative thinking etc. since this isn't like "most knives."

Anyway, that's looking great so far and can't wait ta see how it turns out! Keep us updated often and take plenty of pics

eta- woops, not sure why I have been calling it a "corner round" but that apparently should say "quarter rounder"

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed

NeilJBorja · Apr 6, 2015

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions, Paul! Was starting to sound like a chorus of crickets in here all by myself! The half round file was my plan, I'll see how it turns out. Given the complicated shape, I feel that there'll be quite a fair bit of freehand touching up. I'll give the "sculpting" mindset a try next time I get to filing on this again.

sc_bane · Apr 6, 2015

I really really love the refinements you have done to come up with that final drawing. Don't like bolsters myself. I have a couple hunting knives with bolsters, and if I use tem to actually gut/butcher, I end up putting skate tape on the bolsters for two finger work.

Lo/Rez · Apr 6, 2015

Thanks for the post. I enjoy threads like these.

jdk1 · Apr 6, 2015

Neil, It's turning out great! I kept checking for updates, but somehow missed them. I think they're looking outstanding. Thanks a bunch for keeping us updated on the project. I'm really interested to see how this 3/16" version works out, as the 1/4" version works well for many things, but is a bit of a brut. Also, thank you so much for the kind words on my sheath. It seems to fit the WSK style well. Take care.

NeilJBorja · Apr 7, 2015

Thanks for the support guys. Feeling a bit sick so I stayed away from the filing when I was in the shop.

I chamfered and sanded the front edge of the scales to 2000 grit. Finally getting a glimpse of why this stuff is so pricey. I had to knock down a couple stray wires, but luckily they seem to stay in place once it's sanded smooth.

First time using corby rivets, but I've used Loveless bolts so it wasn't that big of a deal. Drilling holes and counterbores actually took me a good hour or two, since the complete set of nice drill bits is in a different room of the shop than the drill press, and I snuck up to the hole sizes through half a dozen drill sizes to try and get a nice snug press fit. I figure all this heartache will be worth it so I can take the scales off after profile shaping to cold blue the blade.

I drilled some holes for "epoxy rivets". First time doing it so I was pretty conservative. I drilled to the CF along the centerline of the scales, but only just barely past the G10 liners closer towards the edge since I was afraid of grinding into one of the holes.

Scales dry fit. I feel like the longer I work on this knife, the less massive and ridiculous it feels. Maybe because I only got into knives a year ago and I wouldn't carry anything larger than a small folder.

Getting excited! Too bad about all those pesky classes getting in the way!

NeilJBorja · Apr 16, 2015

Finished roughing out the bevel on the draw knife portion.

I tried free handing the quarter rounder with a rat tail file and a half round file. The other side turned out alright but this side was pretty gnarly.

I slipped up with the rat tail and half round file more than I'd like, so I'm gonna have to pay for it in cleanup time. Nothing to do but file down the flat until the gouges are gone.

Looks like I need to tune everything up with some more filing, but the bulk of the material removal is done. Grinds are going up higher than I originally planned for to compensate for and clean up some boo-boos, but that doesn't really bother me since I'm more of a full flat ground kind of guy anyways. The edge thickness throughout the blade is around 30-20 thousandths now, so I also still have plenty of room to safely refine the bevels and maybe even sand to 220 grit before HT without having to worry about warp at the edge. Doing the complex curves freehand feels doable, but getting crisp transitions and lines seems to be the challenge. I also have to mill the jimping on the thumb ramp before heat treat, but that's easy compared to all this filing.

jdk1 · Apr 16, 2015

I'm liking it buddy:thumbup: Thanks for the updates.

NeilJBorja · May 3, 2015

Got most of the filing marks out, but some of the pinning and errant marks still hiding

Broke 4 1/16" end mills cutting the thumb grooves, though 2 of those were from negligence. I ended up having to run the speed at 5000RPM and reduce my feed to less than 1IPM.
Guess I still have a thing or two to learn about CAM. I ran the program twice to get a nice finish. It's rather sharp right now, but I think after HT and sanding, it'll be grippy without tearing up your thumb. There's also some errant marks from the 2nd end mill breaking, but I think they'll blend right in after final sanding.

All the deep scratches taken out at 120 grit. I'm a little disappointed that I wasn't able to keep my sharp lines and transitions from the files through the sanding stage. I'm actually considering hitting the flats on the surface grinder on campus to get a nicer transition line.

Coat of ATP-641 before HT. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel on this project, hopefully it'll come out of HT as nice as it goes in.

coldsteelburns · May 4, 2015

Glad ta see an update on this and that you're still working on it. Nice job smoothin that all out and blending the curved area in with the straight. Looks like that qaurter round will be very funtional for what they're meant to do when it's all finished up :thumbup: I also like the angle that the transition betweeen the two grinds is at, makes it look pretty fierce

Cool man keep us updated!

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed

jdk1 · May 4, 2015

Looking really great! Thanks so much for the step by step updates. Keep them coming

NeilJBorja · May 5, 2015

Thanks for the encouragement guys!

Unfortunately, this knife really fought me every step of the heat treat

(Along with BF deleting my first typed up reply!)
The first time I tried to heat treat it, I fired up one of the HT ovens in my university to 815C (it's in Celsius so, 1500F) for 15 minutes and quenched it, but it ended up at low 50's on the Rockwell tester!
I bumped up the temperature to 830C (1526F) and it came out 59-61RC, and I stuck it in another oven for 2 hours at 204C (399F) and took another measure. 54-56RC!
I was pretty flustered at this point, and it didn't help that I was running back and forth across campus for different final project obligations in between heats.
I took it back up to 830C and quenched into the ~5 gallon bucket of old transmission oil in that shop, and tempered for an hour at 190C (374F), measured at 57-60RC (big variance this time), and tempered for another hour before calling it quits (it measured out to about the same).However, at that point it was warped like a banana.
Penny for reference in the foreground, blade sitting on my surface plate:

I'm a little terrified it's going to snap, but given the abuse I'm running it through right now, I guess at least I'm pretty confident it can be used as a prybar without batting an eye.

I think tomorrow (or more accurately, later today), I'm going to try clamping it straight to a piece of aluminum and tempering it again.

vilePossum · May 5, 2015

well, first of all, thanks for sharing. i'm not into such large knives as i am not really an outdoors type, but i really enjoy you effort and your work shapes up!
one thing though,... don't rush it. that never amounts to anything good, be it leather, metal or wood working.