XM Gen 4

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Pricing...

3" & 3.5" XM-18 Productions $385.00 - Customs $550 and up
XM-24 Productions $550 - Customs $700 and up

DLC production 24s $615
 
The real problem is those prices are for only the lucky few. Even the dealers that manage to get ahold of a few are closer to the $900 range. It is great that they are in demand but it sounds like the dealers are a big part of the problem when it comes to the price bumping.
 
Supply and demand. The dealers price rises and falls with what the market will tolerate. As long as the demand is high and the supply is limited the price will remain at the top of the scale of what someone is willing to pay and since most high end knife purchases have an element of emotion attached - I imagine that price point will remain high.
Then came the Hinderer collaboration knives (Gerber,ZT,etc) that you see, so other markets have even been created because of the existence of a high quality product, ain't the free market a wonderful thang! (-:
 
Ofcourse it is funny...it is blatant price gouging. Does Skunk add a few hundred to a busse when Jerry sends some over?No. The only way you get gouged on a busse is the second hand market or if you use LK. The whole hinderer thing is quite a joke because the company has no problem with dealers overcharging...because they supply them the knives. As for the product not being watered down, how do you explain the change from handground blades to the current versions? I would call that maasively watered down.

In fact...your whole argument goes against the principles RH has on his website...tools for hard use. You talk about protecting the collectable nature of a gen 2....if a gen 2 was meant for hard use then it should have no collectable value at all, and there should be enough available to prevent a price gouging market from even being created. Take emerson for example...people can still buy a production model at retail, and they can buy a collectable custom if they wish. RH production knives are the collectableswith no non collectable version unless you buy a production collab.

RH can do whatever he wants, it is his business, but knocking someone for questioning a totally flawed business model and telling everyone how great it is to line a dealers pockets is comical.

rubiconss said:
No, not specifically. I believe if memory serves you alluded to it being "funny" that once the knife arrives at a retailer for resale that the price immediately goes up $200.00. You did go on to attribute the price to the quality of the knife.
I was referring to the more Macro obseravation that I see more relating to the Hinderer Knives than to others,
Hinderer (Thank Rick and God) has stuck to limited Quality production rather than expanding and watering down the brand. ALL who own Hinderer knives should Hope that this production philosophy continues rather than ever even alluding to any frustration in not having them readily available. Take a Generation 2 XM18 as an example, lets say one was able to procure one at simply list price ($385) OR maybe had to fork out $400-$500 on the secondary market (worst case of the two).
Look on Ebay today. Those Gen 2's are bringing as much as $3500.00.
Do ANY Gen2 owners want to see that ever change? I know I wouldn't if I was one of those folks.
Now, IF the logic continues. Gen3's will follow suit once Gen4's show up and the band plays on.
So, Economics being as much a study of the Human condition as it is a study of Finance... so goes this wonderful story of a True Great American icon in the making.
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Are you made you can't own one in your country? Dint be mad at Hinderer cause of that...
I think that the Hinderer knives are built with care and that takes time to hand assembly each not to make sure each one is perfect to hold the Hinderer name.
All high end knives that are limited in quanity are going to be collector's items. If you want a user knife buy one of the ZT551. They cost less money then some production Emersons.
The world isn't perfect so take what you can get or get over it and move on.

Irezumi said:
Ofcourse it is funny...it is blatant price gouging. Does Skunk add a few hundred to a busse when Jerry sends some over?No. The only way you get gouged on a busse is the second hand market or if you use LK. The whole hinderer thing is quite a joke because the company has no problem with dealers overcharging...because they supply them the knives. As for the product not being watered down, how do you explain the change from handground blades to the current versions? I would call that maasively watered down.

In fact...your whole argument goes against the principles RH has on his website...tools for hard use. You talk about protecting the collectable nature of a gen 2....if a gen 2 was meant for hard use then it should have no collectable value at all, and there should be enough available to prevent a price gouging market from even being created. Take emerson for example...people can still buy a production model at retail, and they can buy a collectable custom if they wish. RH production knives are the collectableswith no non collectable version unless you buy a production collab.

RH can do whatever he wants, it is his business, but knocking someone for questioning a totally flawed business model and telling everyone how great it is to line a dealers pockets is comical.
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I have owned one and there are several in Australia...this thread is about dealer markups and RH approving it.
 
Well I'm guessing the agreement between Hinderer and the dealers doesn't include a set price at which they must sell each particular model at. I don't believe that the dealers get that many knives to begin with so I guess that they make due with what they get. The current going price is set by the buyer. If buyers refuse to pay those prices, then the prices would drop. They people that make the knives can not control the secondary market.
And no, this thread is about the 4th Generation of the XM18.
 
Josh Sollenberger said:
Well I'm guessing the agreement between Hinderer and the dealers doesn't include a set price at which they must sell each particular model at. I don't believe that the dealers get that many knives to begin with so I guess that they make due with what they get. The current going price is set by the buyer. If buyers refuse to pay those prices, then the prices would drop. They people that make the knives can not control the secondary market.
And no, this thread is about the 4th Generation of the XM18.
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Yes you are correct, the thread digressed, my mistake.
 
Irezumi said:
Ofcourse it is funny...it is blatant price gouging. Does Skunk add a few hundred to a busse when Jerry sends some over?No. The only way you get gouged on a busse is the second hand market or if you use LK. The whole hinderer thing is quite a joke because the company has no problem with dealers overcharging...because they supply them the knives. As for the product not being watered down, how do you explain the change from handground blades to the current versions? I would call that maasively watered down.

In fact...your whole argument goes against the principles RH has on his website...tools for hard use. You talk about protecting the collectable nature of a gen 2....if a gen 2 was meant for hard use then it should have no collectable value at all, and there should be enough available to prevent a price gouging market from even being created. Take emerson for example...people can still buy a production model at retail, and they can buy a collectable custom if they wish. RH production knives are the collectableswith no non collectable version unless you buy a production collab.

RH can do whatever he wants, it is his business, but knocking someone for questioning a totally flawed business model and telling everyone how great it is to line a dealers pockets is comical.
Click to expand...

I hesitate to get drawn into this discussion and I apologize in advance to the OP but I have to ask, is it wrong for a dealer of an item that buys something for $400 and marks it up to $650 for sale or buys something for $565 and marks it up to $900 for sale? I thought businesses were allowed to make money, here in the US we still hold on to some resemblance of capitalism. The dealer has overhead and needs to make money to survive, I am not sure why some see this as an issue. I don't see this as "overcharging" either. Who are you to decide what mark-up is proper, do you complain about the mark-up of textiles or other daily use items you encounter?

I don't see how "collectable" or "tools for hard use" has any bearing on that concept. If someone wants to use an item like it is capable of or if they want it as a safe queen is irrelevant to the conversation about dealer mark-up.

Regards,

Rich
 
In the interest of accuracy. For one, I knocked no one. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and as long as the discourse remains civil that is just good forum activity. As for the thread "digressing" the OP asked about where/how to get XM24's and that is still in essence what we are talking about. Three(3) places knife show, dealer, secondary market. The issue of mark-up was mentioned and that is where the discussion headed. Now, it seems assumptions are being advanced about motivations and support or approval with simply no basis in fact. Bottom line is for the average consumer there are three places to buy the knife and the price starts where it does and goes up from there. I would ask whoever it was that found it funny about a price mark up IF they were fortunate enough to get an xm18 at list price( $385) and decided to liquidate the same knife a year or so later by placing it lets say on the BigBay - What would be your asking price?
 
Irezumi said:
Ofcourse it is funny...it is blatant price gouging. Does Skunk add a few hundred to a busse when Jerry sends some over?No. The only way you get gouged on a busse is the second hand market or if you use LK. The whole hinderer thing is quite a joke because the company has no problem with dealers overcharging...because they supply them the knives. As for the product not being watered down, how do you explain the change from handground blades to the current versions? I would call that maasively watered down.

In fact...your whole argument goes against the principles RH has on his website...tools for hard use. You talk about protecting the collectable nature of a gen 2....if a gen 2 was meant for hard use then it should have no collectable value at all, and there should be enough available to prevent a price gouging market from even being created. Take emerson for example...people can still buy a production model at retail, and they can buy a collectable custom if they wish. RH production knives are the collectableswith no non collectable version unless you buy a production collab.

RH can do whatever he wants, it is his business, but knocking someone for questioning a totally flawed business model and telling everyone how great it is to line a dealers pockets is comical.
Click to expand...

Irezumi, you are entitled to your own opinion but do it in the correct thread. Anyway, before I bought a Hinderer directly from Rick I wondered about the price but as soon as I received my first Hinderer a few months ago, an XM-24, I immediately understood why. My knife is built like a tank - no play at all in all directions. Going back to the topic of this thread, Rick sells directly to military, LEO and first responders. I was one of the lucky few to win the lottery at the last California Custom Knife Show and I wish I have money to fly to New Jersey at the New York Custom Knife Show and hopefully win the lottery.
 
RemoA Congrats on your 24. In the sport of the OP question, when purchasing at a show. Do you happen to know how it works each day when most shows span a weekend? Is there a lottery each day?
 
RemoA said:
Irezumi, you are entitled to your own opinion but do it in the correct thread. Anyway, before I bought a Hinderer directly from Rick I wondered about the price but as soon as I received my first Hinderer a few months ago, an XM-24, I immediately understood why. My knife is built like a tank - no play at all in all directions. Going back to the topic of this thread, Rick sells directly to military, LEO and first responders. I was one of the lucky few to win the lottery at the last California Custom Knife Show and I wish I have money to fly to New Jersey at the New York Custom Knife Show and hopefully win the lottery.
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Yep that is fine.
 
rubiconss said:
RemoA Congrats on your 24. In the sport of the OP question, when purchasing at a show. Do you happen to know how it works each day when most shows span a weekend? Is there a lottery each day?
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I was lucky enough to win one of the lottery slots yesterday, and scored the XM-18 I had hoped to get. Winning a lottery spot means you get to purchase one of the 21. If yours is the first ticket pulled, you get your choice of the 21, while the last ticket pulled gets to buy the last one on the table.
 
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Well, I went to the show and stayed overnight at the hotel. Between the hotel, parking show entry fee and gas, I spent over $265. I did the lottery for two days and I did not win. So I think it would have been cheaper to purchase it on the secondary market. Just cause you show up it still cost money and it's only a chance to win, it doesn't mean you will. There were a lot of people there and well, you have to be lucky.
And just so everyone knows, I was happy to be given a chance, everyone from Hinderer was great to talk to and super nice. I did get to handle the XM18 production slicer in person. I just wanted everyone to know, it's not hard to flip in any way so have no fear. Beautiful knife in every way.
 
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