"Yet Another" Designer Thread

[Natlek]

What Stacy said is basically the hard truth, if you really wan't to be a knife designer, then you have to put years into knife making first.
Nobody is going to want a knife designed by somebody who isn't a professional knife maker.
Get into knife making, you can make a basic heat treating forge, buy some files and good torch. For around $100 you can rig up the bare basics and start from there.
After a few years of practice, making knives every week or day then you can actually design knives and make them. You need an inventory, or portfolio so to speak, not just drawings on paper. You don't want to approach a serious company with some drawings on paper and ideas in your head. Approach them with a catalogue and bag full of knives you have made. You will be easily dismissed if you don't have anything to back up your ideas with. Now it's harder to dismiss somebody with a shop full of finished knives for sale.
Then even if nobody wants your knife designs, you just made them all yourself, so you succeeded anyway and are now a knife maker and designer for yourself.

I disagree with almost everything you and Stacy wrote .I will stay just on this sentence .........After a few years of practice, making knives every week or day then you can actually design knives and make them
Instead of of wasting unnecessarily several years of practice he can visit a well-equipped knife shop and inspect many knives carefully.I can bet with you that he will learn more in that way then to spend few years in shop......
Reading some comments here it seems to me that you are trying to rediscover hot water . Some of you make it as it is rocket science to make a good usable knife.
There are a lot of good knives here from unknown masters, there are of course some not so good ones. I'm talking about the design, not the quality of execution and finish.

 

[Natlek]

I like the design of this model, every detail on it. Most likely, if I research long enough, I will find an already existing model that is very similar to this one.
I would like to hear from all of you who suggest to him that he need first to start with a few years making knives........................ what do you think is wrong with this design ?

 

[Londinium Armoury]

I disagree with almost everything you and Stacy wrote .I will stay just on this sentence .........After a few years of practice, making knives every week or day then you can actually design knives and make them
Instead of of wasting unnecessarily several years of practice he can visit a well-equipped knife shop and inspect many knives carefully.I can bet with you that he will learn more in that way then to spend few years in shop......
Reading some comments here it seems to me that you are trying to rediscover hot water . Some of you make it as it is rocket science to make a good usable knife.
There are a lot of good knives here from unknown masters, there are of course some not so good ones. I'm talking about the design, not the quality of execution and finish.

I think the words Master, and "Doing it for years" go hand in hand do they not. I doubt you can find many masters who haven't been doing it for years.

 

[fishface5]

Liong Mah is certainly a designer and has had many designs made by makers and factories. But did he start as a knife maker?

In any event for designing I would say 1. Handle and use TONS of knives first, and most importantly 2. MAKE TONS OF MOCK- UPS

 

[ferider]

I like the design of this model, every detail on it. Most likely, if I research long enough, I will find an already existing model that is very similar to this one.
I would like to hear from all of you who suggest to him that he need first to start with a few years making knives........................ what do you think is wrong with this design ?

Nothing wrong. It’s a pretty close copy of Cheburkov’s Strizh.

 

[Mecha]

I know a couple of blade designers who didn't make knives themselves at first, but instead had extensive real-world use of them. When they finally did make knives, their work was really great immediately.

 

[Lorien]

I imagine that most of the designers who work for the major knife production companies have never made a knife. It takes a lot of hard work, education and commitment to be a professional designer in almost any field

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

ferider has mentioned what I was originally saying. The knife is perfectly fine. It is just a copy of an existing knife .. even if he didn't directly copy it, it is identical to many already made. I consider a knife designer someone coming up with new designs or unique embellishments.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

I imagine that most of the designers who work for the major knife production companies have never made a knife. It takes a lot of hard work, education and commitment to be a professional designer in almost any field

Probably hire design experts with extensive backgrounds in metallurgy, engineering or other fabrication experience. The important thing though is those routes probably took longer and more years studying at university than he would have to take if he simply started now as a journeyman knife maker and designer, which he can start as soon as he has 100 bucks to invest in himself.
Because I'm trying to steer him in a direction that leads to his success, not really trying to discuss hypotheticals, it seems the guy is looking to seriously become a knife designer.
Which route would be most practical for him right now, to send in his resume to Spyderco, Victorinox, Opinel, or even Ikea knives with 0 experience under his belt, or get cracking and make a knife tommorow and go from there. If you think the resume route is better,, then maybe advise him which university he should apply for that would best lead to a career in R&D for a major knife manafacturing company.

 

[Lorien]

huh?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Most designers who work for major knife companies are knife makers. Why would you think otherwise?

 

[Lorien]

most knife makers who work with/for major knife companies are knife makers. They work with designers within the company to ensure that company can replicate the knife maker's designs using processes that are scalable.

take Cold Steel, for example- most of the designs are attributed to a single designer, but you know that there is an army of designers behind the scenes ensuring those designs can be brought to market and make a profit. My guess is most people who work in design within the cutlery industry don't have any experience making knives, as I said before.

design is a huge field. There are plenty of paths to follow within it, and a lot of us take for granted what's involved.

 

[Forrest Taylor]

We have a saying here ............... You can't choose a woman and a watermelon, you can just luckily guess which one is good

I disagree. My Grand Dad taught me how to thump on a watermelon and listen to the sound to pick the best one.
Haven't tried the technique on women yet.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

huh?

Was saying huh, easier than expressing a rebuttal to my points?
Understandable.
I get the impression that some of you here aren't actually trying to help this man, you're just here to blow smoke.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

OK, guys, we are getting away from the OP here. Let's try and stay with advice to him, not each other.


Unrelated to this - Londinium - can you send me an email. I had a few questions for you and you don't have PM. sapelt@cox.net

 

[Lorien]

Was saying huh, easier than expressing a rebuttal to my points?
Understandable.
I get the impression that some of you here aren't actually trying to help this man, you're just here to blow smoke.

just to answer your question, that was a what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about "huh". Understand?

I have no rebuttal to whatever points you think you were making, and I am not here to engage with you in particular at all. If you're looking to pick a fight with me, you're barking up the wrong tree mate.

 

[Natlek]

OK, guys, we are getting away from the OP here. Let's try and stay with advice to him, not each other.


Unrelated to this - Londinium - can you send me an email. I had a few questions for you and you don't have PM. sapelt@cox.net

I don’t think there’s much to be said about that .First and foremost is good design,after that I can list hundreds of factors on which the success or failure of that design would depend . But that doesn't mean he shouldn't try , no one can predict the future. One example unrelated to knives but I think is relevant..........Rimac Automobili is a Croatian car manufacturer headquartered from Croatia, that develops and produces electric sports cars, drivetrains and battery systems. The company was founded in 2009 by Mate Rimac. In July 2021, VW Group's Porsche and Rimac announced that they have agreed to create a joint venture that will incorporate Volkswagen's high-performance Bugatti brand. The new venture will be called Bugatti-Rimac. Rimac will have a 55% stake in the joint venture, while Porsche will hold a 45% stake in the company. More about company you can find on internet.
My point is , getting into that kind of business today when we know what the competition is like in that segment ......... is a very brave decision and most likely a belief in your abilities.
The competition in what we are talking about is , if I may say so......... endless?
Try it ....................is only advice i have !

 

[Natlek]

I imagine that most of the designers who work for the major knife production companies have never made a knife. It takes a lot of hard work, education and commitment to be a professional designer in almost any field

My daughter is graduating from college this fall, interior design .........I asked her on several occasions to draw some knives, to be usable, not art.You know what? Most of what he draw I was already make ............... and I'm not a designer or am I?
But she has some great ideas for a combination of materials for handle that I will use one day.......

 

[RyanSean97]

Didn't mean to leave you guys hanging, but I stopped getting notifications for replies and assumed that the thread had concluded. I'm glad to see the discussion is still taking place.

Nothing wrong. It’s a pretty close copy of Cheburkov’s Strizh.

I'm still new to his work, so I didn't mean for it to be that way. But I did intentionally use pretty universal shapes for that design becsuse I'm a fan of that type of "free real estate" shape. But I'll definitely be checking that model out and fixing this so that it isn't the same.

ferider has mentioned what I was originally saying. The knife is perfectly fine. It is just a copy of an existing knife .. even if he didn't directly copy it, it is identical to many already made. I consider a knife designer someone coming up with new designs or unique embellishments.

Just for my own curiosity Stacy, as someone who makes knives with great experience and craftsmanship, would you tend to agree that it's relatively harder each day to make a "new" design? I personally feel like the designs that work, are perfected already out there and there's not much to improve on in use specific situations. Design can of course be changed, but at some point too much change can turn into less and less useful.

I also want to clarify that I do plan on making knives as well as designing them, so I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to take a way out of not being a real maker or something like that, because I respect all makers whether it be physical or digital in the form of designs only.

I know a couple of blade designers who didn't make knives themselves at first, but instead had extensive real-world use of them. When they finally did make knives, their work was really great immediately.

This is what I had in mind when I made this post, because I know some as well, the ones I listed even. I know it's an unpopular opinion but does anyone here agree that you don't necessarily need to make a knife to know what makes one great? All of us here have used them, probably most of the time we've been alive. We all know what's uncomfortable and what isn't, what cuts and what doesn't, and what looks good and what doesn't. A lot of those things can be changed and tested of course, but as a general statement 90% of us that have used a knife could probably design one that would work just fine right?

Thanks for all the discussion again guys, I really like the engagement.

 

[ferider]

I'm still new to his work, so I didn't mean for it to be that way. But I did intentionally use pretty universal shapes for that design becsuse I'm a fan of that type of "free real estate" shape. But I'll definitely be checking that model out and fixing this so that it isn't the same.

I didn't mean it in a bad way. Actually cool that you came up with a similar design as one of the two top Russian knife makers.

That being said, it shows that it's hard to come up with something new and distinguished in this field .... I suggest to study people who started like you and who have been successful in the past, and why they were, in addition to luck. Take Lorien for example. I'm a fan of his CPK designs. They turn out to be _very_ practical and ergonomic but still have a very unique "signature". That combined with CPK's innovation made the success, IMHO.

If you are a coffee drinker, let me give you another example: the Alessi Espresso maker:

This one actually made it into the MOMA, I believe due to the combination of functionality, beautiful, simple and yet original design.

Just my 2 cents.

Roland.