Y'know, I'm new here, so I'm kinda curious...

Understood...I agree wholeheartedly with the post that says it's a cultural thing. I grew up with an axe...the family requirement was to fell trees, limb trees, and repeat the process. We were more worried about removing scrub trees than making firewood...though we eventually burned the brush pile. When I was five, I was given a hatchet to whack little stuff...the taller and stronger you got, the bigger the axe until you reached the big heavy double bits. My grandfather required a specific precision of sharpness. If you couldn't take a certain size limb in one swing, you got sent to resharpen. Beating a knife would have been considered a sin...but all we had were pocket knives.

Safety, effectiveness, purpose seems to drive the baton decision...and fun/relaxation. Just like I eventually switched to a chainsaw, people must switch to batoning. Interesting...
1. Was this something mountain men did...?
2. I read somewhere here that a BK16 paired with a BK9 was a good match for these situations. Is that true...or are most batoners one-tool people? May have to make a Christmas list for 2019...
3. What level of fun are we talking here? That might be a tough sell to the wife...
 
Snow Walker said:
Safety, effectiveness, purpose seems to drive the baton decision...and fun/relaxation. Just like I eventually switched to a chainsaw, people must switch to batoning. Interesting...
Click to expand...

I believe chainsaws and large knives do completely different tasks and I certainly think a chainsaw would do quite poorly at the tasks for which batoning works best e.g. splitting. It's really all about optimization, while a chainsaw does fantastic in slicing trunks into rounds and a splitting maul or ax does best in splitting rounds into wedges, a large knife does best when batoning those wedges into smaller wedges all the way down to kindling. The smaller a piece of wood gets the more precision it takes to make it smaller still, and in the gap between rounds and kindling batoning with a large knife seems to be the most efficient and safest way to proceed down the size reduction path.
 
I grew up with a two man crosscut saw to down trees and we used axes to delimb the main trunk ... and of course a splitting maul to split the wood ... this was all for home use ...

now when we went camping or even just out for some time wandering around in the woods ... dad always had a large knife and a hatchet ... and that was where I learned about batoning ... at that age dad didn't want me using the hatchet as batoning is more controled = less dangerous ...

now as an adult it depends what I'm doing ... if I am camping for a week or two I have an axe along ... but use a folding saw to cut wood and only use the axe to split if I need dryer wood ... and usually I can find enough downed wood that using the smaller diameter pieces batoning is easier ...

if it's a hike or a day or two it's easier to carry a big blade for batoning if needed ... but most the batoning is just for fun if I'm being honest ... I just burn them without splitting unless things are real wet ...

and damn 91bravo 91bravo and your fatwood hoarding fields lol ... I have to use feathersticks and tinder bundles up here and get a bit of pine pitch ... I miss that kind of fatwood ... it's not as easy to find here ...
 
Snow Walker said:
Understood...I agree wholeheartedly with the post that says it's a cultural thing. I grew up with an axe...the family requirement was to fell trees, limb trees, and repeat the process. We were more worried about removing scrub trees than making firewood...though we eventually burned the brush pile. When I was five, I was given a hatchet to whack little stuff...the taller and stronger you got, the bigger the axe until you reached the big heavy double bits. My grandfather required a specific precision of sharpness. If you couldn't take a certain size limb in one swing, you got sent to resharpen. Beating a knife would have been considered a sin...but all we had were pocket knives.

Safety, effectiveness, purpose seems to drive the baton decision...and fun/relaxation. Just like I eventually switched to a chainsaw, people must switch to batoning. Interesting...
1. Was this something mountain men did...?
2. I read somewhere here that a BK16 paired with a BK9 was a good match for these situations. Is that true...or are most batoners one-tool people? May have to make a Christmas list for 2019...
3. What level of fun are we talking here? That might be a tough sell to the wife...
Click to expand...

Good insight SW. Sounds like you had lots of experience with axes growing up. Good stuff. Here’s my 2¢:

1. Highly doubt it. You have to remember back then their “big” knives were all glorified butcher knives. They didn’t have access to the 1/4+” slabs of steel we’re lucky to have today. They also seemed to have more pack horses/mules to carry their gear, so...I guess weight wasn’t foremost on their mind while packing? Dunno, just spit-balling there.

2. A 16, 9, and a SAK is the preferred carry for Ethan when he tramps around in the bush, so it’s good enough for me (although I use a 4 as my large knife). I pair that with a folding saw, and all my wood processing needs are taken care of. I’m only burning wrist- to thigh-thick pieces of wood when I have a fire in the bush, so a felling axe seems a little excessive where I’m at. My 4 weighs less than even my hatchet, so most of the time the hatchet stays at home. (Side note: With the amount of knives in these peoples collections, i don't think anyone's a one-tool type of person here lol)
I find batoning a lot safer as well. I remember camping out (2, 3 years ago?) and my daughter, out of the blue, asked to use the axe to chop up some wood. After swallowing my stomach, I taught her how to baton with her little knife, which made her happy and kept her occupied, as well as the added benefit of me not getting the evil eye from my wife...





3...and it is fun! Nothing quite like hammering a knife through a knotted, twisted-up slab of pine until you hear the satisfying crack as it finally falls apart.
 
It is my understanding that a froe was traditionally used mainly for making shakes or shingles. It offered the control needed to get consistent pieces.

A froe is supposed to be mounted on the bottom of a long wooden handle. It makes a poor knife. I love hatchets but they also make poor knives. A BK9 is lighter than a hatchet, more versatile and can still do knife tasks.

Why do I baton? Honestly I try not to. We don’t really have fatwood here and birch bark, which is an amazing fire starter wet or dry, is trivial to collect here. Also, downed wood of every size is also easy to pick up. In the summer when things are dry it is easy to collect burnable wood.

The catch is that wood is often wet here. I sometimes need to baton to get to the drier inside so I can get the fire going. After that damp wood will still burn if the fire is hot enough. Another reason is that I love being in the woods in the winter and standing dead wood is often the only easy or dry option. Most of the downed wood is buried in snow. Also, due the the constant wetness and all the snow the downed wood on the ground can get punky fast. Again, sometimes standing deadwood is the best option. I don’t fell large trees and the BK9 can drop and process a small dead tree pretty effectively while still being good at knife things.

This is all when recreating away from home. Around the house and property a chainsaw and an axe/maul/hatchet is all I use. No need to baton near the house.
 
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First of all Welcome... Pull up a stool and find a warm spot by the fire.....

One of the things about batonning that I most like is that you can easily find the weak points along the already failing rays.....Another lovely side effect is that the pieces that come off are sitting right at your feet..... Basically you are using the blade as a froe which has been used for centuries to process bolts into kindling..... Match the blade to the task.... The Four or the Ten are most often mentioned but, I have used the Necker(BK11) to get little stuff off a 3 incher and to take that three incher off a tree with a club(baton) and the blade..... Once you start doing it you will find a myriad of uses in Bushcrafty stuff.... Match the club to the knife too... A giant cudgel should NOT be used with Your Swiss Army knife!..... The precision is really nice...Give it a try and I am confident you will use your hatchet a lot less..

Ethan
 
What model is the one with the long swedge and that baton shelf on the spine? That thing looks purpose driven!
 
Thank you gentlemen for all your comments and insights...probably one of the best discussions on the topic I've read. Especially without all the "baton vs not baton" arguing. We have a cabin in woods in the Northland...I've always used a chainsaw, axe and maul for everything. This might be my new cabin activity...

Does the line "But honey, it's for the cabin..." work when buying large knives...?
 
Snow Walker said:
Thank you gentlemen for all your comments and insights...probably one of the best discussions on the topic I've read. Especially without all the "baton vs not baton" arguing. We have a cabin in woods in the Northland...I've always used a chainsaw, axe and maul for everything. This might be my new cabin activity...

Does the line "But honey, it's for the cabin..." work when buying large knives...?
Click to expand...

Yep, chainsaw and maul for me when doing cords of wood for me. Well if my dad didn't destroy my chainsaw...so I steal my brother's. Getting larger to smaller for the wood stove for beer...er deer hunting, batoning for the kindling and till the ground freezes for the wood stove its easier and safer to baton it. When it can be done safer out side again (IE. Freezing so the snow/slush/mud is solid) the maul for the larger to smaller. I said earlier, what ever works. When doing foot camping I usually go straight batoning now, especially for the youngerlings I'm responsible for to do wood that way. Still Axe and hatchet comes along if there are enough pack kids.
 
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