You choose the torture/test...

A

allenC

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Jun 18, 2000
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Okay, I'm in the mood to "test" (sacrifice) two knives for the sake of advancing knife knowledge.

I'm thinking of something along the lines of a comparison between a lock-back plastic handle folder and an Axis-lock folder.

The two unlucky contestants will be....(drumroll please):

The Spyderco Rescue (2000 model), and the Benchmade 555 mini-Griptilian!

Obviously, the cutting ability is'nt what I'm comparing.
The blades are just too different to be compared.

What I'm thinking of is stuff like...

How do the locks hold up in sand?
Will the knives still function if they suffer a fall off of the roof or a cliff?
How easy are they to operate while submerged (the knives an/or myself)?
Will they work if they are ran over by my truck (this might be the last test performed)?

You probably get the idea.

So what are your recommendations?

BTW, a few basic guidelines:
Don't recommend stuff that would instantly destroy ANY knife (crap like "throw the knife in to a volcano").

And it should be something that could really happen in everyday life (in real life you're never gonna wrap det-cord around you knife or imbed the knife in a block of C-4...).

Here's your chance to learn something you might want to know but without screwing up you own knife.

What say you, good people?

Allen.
 
PS

I'm working on getting a scanner or a digital camera--but right now I cannot produce pictures.

Allen.
 
well this might be better if saved for last but i am very curious how much lateral stress an axis lock can handle.

axis locks are touted as these incredibly strong folders and i'm sure they are but it seems all these super strong locks will have a higher failure rate compared to a good old lockback when twisting the blade. remember the original cold steel proof video where they do this test? of course cs says this is gross abuse of the knife and shouldn't be duplicated but if you're willing :p
 
how much muck you can drag 'em through before they fail to lock up. How do they handle dust, dirt, mud and crud?

Frank
 
Lateral?? the lock will probably be the last thing to fail, most likely you'll break the blade or shear off the pivot pin, which sort of renders lock strength moot eh? ;) How about this, clamp most of the blade in a vise (padded jaws of some sort to make sure the blade is held firmly) and pull the handle towards yourself, while torquing (try it in both directions) while at the same time applying force to try and "close" knife.

Edit: Since both these knives don't have any real "torqueing" failure modes, they should both pass with ease, unless for some reason your grip happens to press on the respective release mechanisms. It's an important thing to know though, how your hand will affect the lock, I have some issues with my endura and heavy cuts in thick cardboard if I hold it a certain way, the lock comes half released because my hand is pressing on it. So I either hold it differently or use a fixed blade/axis lock.
 
Edge holding - cardboard.

Drop tests, open/closed onto hard surface.

Prying.

Digging.

Chopping/batoning clothes hangers.

Corrosion resistance in salt water and salt water/bleach solution (save this for last!).



- Frank
 
I like yoda's suggestion, AFTER running them though mud, sand, and dropping them off a building.
(BTW Happy birthday yoda!)
 
"What say you, good people?"

Wear good gloves and eye protections while performing the tests ;)

For the test... huuh, perform some cigar cap cutting test while drinking some good jamaican rum :D
 
Hmmm, I'll pass on the rum...I prefer vodka (ice cold and neat).

Well, already I have made a few changes on the "test subjects".
My beloved Spyderco Rescue is out, but some new ones are in.

The new test subjects are:

Benchmade 555 (Axis-lock)
Ka-bar Dozier drop-point hunter (lock-back)
CRKT Carson M16-03 (liner-lock)
Timberline Timberlite (Neeley-lock)
Kershaw 2950 (Opinel type lock)
Gerber ?Para-frame (frame-lock)

It looks like this is becoming more of a lock function test rather than a cutting edge retention test.

Thanks for the suggestions and keep'em coming,
Allen.
 
Clutch the blade firmly in a vise and apply a 100 lbs weight attached by a rope at the extremity of the handle (the pressure applies in the "closing" direction). Redo test applying a 30* angle on both side of the vertical axe of the knife spine.
Repeat the test after having the knives got burried into sand then mud, thus giving an idea about how dirt can affect the lock safety, with and without moderate torque.

Xavier.
 
As a general rule, when I see locks being promoted in terms of strength I wonder if the blade and handle can stand the strain. I would be curious how it fails when over stressed. Yes the lock may be very strong however does the blade just break readily or the plastic grips give out. Similar in regards to batoning, does the lock just loosen and start to develop play or does it just collapse and fail suddenly and dramatically.

-Cliff
 
allenC said:
Will the knives still function if they suffer a fall off ... a cliff?
Click to expand...
Had me worried there for a minute--then noticed cliff wasn't capitalized, so yeah, maybe your knife has a chance to survive that. :D

Cliff,

Is the concept of a folder that is both "light and strong" an oxymoron? Have you found any folders you would categorize as both? Further, have you even found any folders you would categorize as "strong"? If so, I'm sure it's a short list--I'd love to know what's on it.

Thanks,
Will
 
I like the idea of opening and closing the knives under mud/sand/muck/dirt/etc. and then tossing them off the tallest building you can find repeatedly. :D
 
WILL YORK said:
Is the concept of a folder that is both "light and strong" an oxymoron?
Click to expand...
FRN is inherently strong enough for most blades, you can crack the blades in half on the 1/8" folders for example, even the sabre ground ones and the handles are fine. The biggest problem is micro-screws which will cut through the plastic readily.

What happens often is an incoherent design. Take something like the Fulcrum, massive blade, 1/4" thick and sabre ground, this isn't going to be bent by human hands with a 4" blade, however can the pivot actually take the same amount of maximal load which the blade can handle.

I would like to see a folder with a blade similar to the Howling Rat, 3/16", high flat grind with a tip just at the point cross section wise where it can be used for heavy digging/prying in woods. Anything heavier than this on a folder is simply overbuilt because the lever arm is too short to require a heavier blade.

Unless of course you want to be able to poke the tip in something and actually jump on the end of the handle, or put a bar on it or similar. For awhile I thought it was not possible to make a handle which could take this level of strength without damage, but after using a few like the Manix it seems possible.

I am waiting to see what Busse comes out with, hopefully it will have a nice 3/16" INFI blade, integral handle, with a decent locking mechanism.

-Cliff
 
Maximus,

I don't know about a new album--while I do like Kate Bush, I have'nt listened to any of her stuff in a long time.

As for the testing:
I'm trying to invision things that could really happen to a knife and tasks that I would really perform with folders this size.


For example:

Sometimes you have to use your knife to cut things that are sticky and grimey.
So simulate this I'll pour honey into the knives, and then bury them in the sandbox, then dig them up, and see how they function.


Sometimes you need to clean your knife in the field with nothing but the shirt on your back.
I'll see how clean I can get them using only standing water (like a mud puddle) and my t-shirt and maybe a twig, and then see how they function.


There you are in the woods. It's getting cold and it's been raining for hours. You need to get to the dry center of your firewood so you can start the fire.
To do this, I'll split some wood by batoning the blades.


While climbing a steep hill or a cliff, your knife could slip from your pocket and fall.
To simulate this I'll drop them off the roof of my house (2 stories) on to my concrete patio three times, with the blade closed (once pivot down, once butt down, and once at random).


Okay, You jump out of your truck and go in to the store for a six-pack of your favorite cool refreshing drink.
You did'nt notice that your knife had slipped out of your pocket.
Upon returning to your truck, you see your poor knife, now a victim of a hit-and-run!
To simulate this I'll run them over with my Ford Explorer Sport-Trac on my concrete driveway.

What do you think?
Other plausable senarios?

thanks,
Allen.
 
In regards to the dirt and honey, it would be informative if this was done both with the locks engaged and not, as some are more open than others in both positions.

-Cliff
 
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