Your best combat fixed blade...Any price

I found all the knives mentioned very interesting and most were good selections.

However, as someone pointed out, is this a fighting knife or a combat knife, they are two completely different things.

Military personel (with a few exceptions) receive no knife training. In todays military most personel are not allowed to even carry a knife.

Also, for those of you who are making comments on "this is the ultimate knife, etc.". How about including you background with knives and why you are making this statement. Please include the other knives you tested this knife against and what the criteria was.

Also, how do you conceal or carry these big bowies? Remember the knife does you no good if you left it at home.

Best Combat Knife: Walter Brend Model 2 in D-2.

Best Fighting knife: Probably any of the knives based on the Randall Model 1. Loveless and Herron Double Hollow Ground fighters are two classic examples.

Of course the very best fighting knife, is the one you have in your hand, that you have trained with, when the knife fight starts.




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Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
Les, care to go into detail about your choice. What does the Brend do that makes it your #1 choice? What do you look for in a "combat knife" and what did you regularly have to do in the field with your knife?

-Cliff
 
My definitions:

"Combat Knife" - a cutting tool used by soldiers in combat situations. That covers a lot of ground, from SAKs to Bolos, but I generally think of the KaBar as the classic example. Generally I'd say 4.5"-7", single-edged, and suited to hard field utility. These knives are often "designed by a committee" (a camel is a horse designed by a committee) and thus may incorporate too many features to be very effective at any task. IMO, the worst of them are those that try to include fighting in their chore list.

"Fighting Knife" - a knife intended for use against an awares individual also armed with a knife or perhaps another hand weapon. This is more properly termed "duelling." These knives had their heyday in the last century and, at least in this country, are of more historical interest than practical value today. They usually have a blade of 9"-14", typically have a substantial sharpened false edge, and a large double guard that may incorporate blade-catchers. Unlike all other knives, where the guard protects the hand from the same knife, this one may protect the hand from other knives (I often wonder how likely that is).

"Killing knives" - Knives whose sole intent is to quickly kill another individual, preferably unawares and not similarly armed. These have no lawful place, but may be suited to certain military groups concerned with sentry removal and similar covert operations. They are generally 6"-9" and double-edged, with small double-guards to protect the hand. Good examples are the Gerber Mk II and the Applegate-Fairbairn.

That's how I keep these 3 confusing groups of knives straight. The third term is not in normal usage, but I feel it should be (though it's hardly politically correct). I won't suggest that there is no overlap between these groups or that any military blade can be easily placed in one. But I do feel it helps keep things straight.

As for "ultimate," I knew I shouldn't have used that word. Mr. Bagwell has more experience than virtually anyone this century in producing fighting knives, and Mr. Keating is an authority on their use. Both seem to agree that the Bagwell Bowie is one of the finest of that type. I can only appreciate it from a layman's standpoint.

Of the uses above, field utility is the only one that I have either first-hand experience with or reliable references for. It is my own observations, reading, and the input of friends in military service or outdoor occupations that I put into my "combat" design.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Well, here's the only fixed blade I have and not only do I think it serves well as a combat blade (as defined by Corduroy), it is also the first knife I've made. I'm pretty proud of it!

Spencer's Knife

Detail's of the knife here

Spencer Stewart

[This message has been edited by Spencer Stewart (edited 30 June 1999).]
 
Les, I second Cliff's questions. Please elaborate on the Brend! Also, how did you sharpen it in the field?

Joe
 
Cliff and Joe,

I used my knife for everything but fighting. As I had a M-16, .45, 54 soldiers, artillery, Tac Air and Naval Gun Fire during excerises in the Caribean.

My knife was used for such things as breaking bands of off ammo crates, opening up 55 gallon drums, cleaing fields of fire, open C-ration cans and later open up MRE bags, digging fox holes in rock terrain, removing vines and roots while digging fox holes, making different sleep arrangements. In Alaska it was used to chop down small fir trees to make the bed we put on top of the snow, or to cut the sticks you would use to make the roof if you were going to dig into the snow, make fuzz sticks to help light fires, chop wood for fires, chop ice for igloos. In the jungle, help get lunch or dinner, make space for the hammock (never sleep on the ground in the jungle), cut vines to get water while travelling in the jungle, cut bamboo to make field expedient canteens, etc. Ive used the brend as a pry bar, screw driver, hammer, hole puncher, etc.

However, I never once was attacked by a one inch hemp rope or a 2x4 that needed to be cut in two. Never had the dreaded and feared car door attack me (although cutting open a metal 55 gallon drum would probably check that block).

I feel what makes the Brend so special is the way it keeps its 1/4" stock along the spine area of the knife almost all the way down to the tip. Further, D-2 is an excellent choice for a steel on a knife that is going to be used as a tool. The handle is completly radiused to include the guard which makes it very comfortable to use all day. The handle also features a palm swell and three different lanyard attachements. Currently, the only other knife that features this type of handle is the MLR by Dave Broadwell. Yes, I sent him one of Walter's knives to look at.

As for sharpening, that was done daily as the knife was used. I really liked the Gerber Sharp Pack. One side was ceramic and the other was a medium grit diamond hone.

I would sharpen the knife with the ceramic, stop it on a piece of leather. Then I would run the Diamond hone up and down the knife. This roughens up the edge and produces what can be best described as microscopic hooks. It helps make the knife bite into whatever it's cutting.

I also have sharpened my knives on smooth stones taken out of rivers. Keep it wet and go in circles. Works ok.

Guys there is no substitute for experience. Just hearing about how knives work, or testing them in your shop doesnt really give you a feel for what the knife is capable of.

I know Cliff Loves to test the unconditional warranty (way to go Cliff, I have noticed the "Mad Dog knives are the best" comments have slowed down). Cliff you tested both the knife and the makers integrity, both failed.

You have to take a knife and use it daily for a month or so. Use the knife within the limits of it's design (dont use a folder as a pry bar, for instance).

To many people on these forums post comments on knives they have not tested throughly. I feel so strongly about the Brend because I put it through every test I could imagine happening. Twice I got on a plane with live ammunition (meaning we were headed to a "live fire exercise") with my Brend at my side I knew that my knife would not fail me.

Ok, now it's time to hear from some others and what tests they put their combat/fighting/Utility knives through.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
I'll agree that there is no better way to test a knife theory than to put it in steel and see how it performs in the harshest uses for the longest time possible. I am a young knifemaker, not a seasoned combat veteran, and I will never disagree with someone when they say "Yeah, but I've used it and it doesn't work." But I will ask why it doesn't work, or why it is better, or how they feel something could be improved. Even the strongest lessons gained by experience must have a clear reason behind them or they are just personal impressions.

Think of the number of fighting men who carried KaBars and swore by them. Is this, then, the pinnacle of combat knife design? Or might one present a modification that would improve it? Say, removing the fuller, for example. Knife gets stronger, cheaper to make, hangs up a bit less in some kinds of cuts... all at the expense of only an ounce or two. Did I have to be a vet who carried the KaBar for years to come up with that? No. Of course, I may be wrong and that might not improve the knife... only way to find out is testing, both in a controlled shop and with folks who "go and do."

What I am getting at is that knives need makers and they need users. Makers need to listen to users, but they also have to weigh that info and try to put it all together, because most users aren't makers. When I ask folks how they'd like to see one of my knives improved, the most common responses are either "I don't," "I dunno," or to point out one or two minor items. It's up to me to put all the little things together with my experiences and the basic concerns of how to produce the thing and come up with a knife. I love the customer who has a doodle on a napkin, or even better a 3D projection (I wish), and says "I know how this has to work, just make it."

Yes, there are makers who are combat vets, experienced outdoorsman, meat-packers, ranchers, etc. and they certainly know how to make a using knife. But there are also those who are former musicians, truck-drivers, or machinists, and they make a good knife as well. They must rely more on customer input for feedback on using and improving their knives, but would you deny them a place of authority? We all have something to teach one another, and it concerns me when anyone says someone else is unqualified to speak.
The only ones who are unqualified are those who present no reasoning behind their claims. When someone presents an opinion along with the reasoning behind it, we may all judge it and choose to take it to heart if it is sound, or ignore it if it is unfit.

This is not an attack on you, Mr. Robertson. Your experience and the reasoning you present along with it make your voice carry great weight with me. But I thought I would use the opportunity to bring this point up, as we are all constantly evaluating the credentials behind what people say here. I feel it would be better to examine the reasoning behind what they say.

------------------

-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)

[This message has been edited by Corduroy (edited 30 June 1999).]
 
Although I appreciate your responses to my topic, Mr. Corduroy, I must use this opportunity to remind you that I asked what people thought was their best combat knife. I never asked what anyone's definition of what a combat knife was. True I believe that the term "combat knife" is slightly trite. I used the term in hopes of not confusing people, BUT I believe defining combat knives ought to be discussed on another thread, one I would be glad to take part in. On this thread ALL I want to know is what everyone thinks is a good "combat knife"(A knife to be used for utility during combat conditions and IF NECCESSARY as a defensive tool)and where I can find them. I ask this because I'm always on the look out for good knives but I of course can't possibly read or hear about every knifemaker in existence(without help). Thank you
 
Corduroy,

No offense taken. We should always ask those what their background is when they are presenting a claim of any sort. This is why I always ask (and very rarely get) responses from those who claim "so and so" makes the best knife.

I do not claim to have all the answers, I just had more experience than most in custom knives. When I bought my first custom knife, I did so because I knew I was going to a place where the mission would be real and the job would be demanding. My experience with factory knives showed me that put to harsh use they failed more times than not. I neede d a knife that would never fail. This is not to say that some of the custom knives I bought did not fail, they did.

These knives were primarily purchased from new knifemakers. Most were not eager to here suggestions as to how to improve their knives. You appear to want constructive critiscism. So in my book this puts you towards the front of the pack already.

You made a couple of other valid points. When you ask most people what needs to be improved they can't give you specific answers. I ask that question of customers all the time when I see a knife that intrigues me. Why did you buy that? More times than not the answer is "I liked how it looked". Great answer, you should buy what you like. But that doesnt really tell us what the customer liked about the knife.

As for the K-Bar and Ek and other well known knives of WWII. You have to remember, this was the best there was at the time. Remember, at this time, computers, TV's, VCR's, Automatic Transmission, etc. didnt exsist either. Personally, I found the K-Bar to be week and not hold an edge very well. Not to mention you could bend the guard with your bare hands.

Anything made today that was being produced in the 1940's would be far superior to what was available back then. D-2, ATS-34, 154CM, 420V, 440V, 3V, titanium, carbon fiber, G-10 and Micarta did not exsist back then.

Given a choice between a 1940's K-Bar and one of todays custom knives, which one would you choose? Obviously, the knife made today.

This past February at the Las Vegas Classic Knife Show I was handed a knife by a knife maker. He explained to me that the maker of the knife wanted a honest opinion of his work. Seems he was irritated that he did not win an award. I looked at his knife and the first thing I told him was that he was left handed. He was amazed that I knew that. I showed him in the choil area where the left side was lower than the right. I then pointed out some other minor mistakes on the knife. I told him if I was a judge I would have been much more harsh on his critique. He laughed and said I guess Im glad you werent a judge. I said, no acutally you want me to be a judge, as those who looked at your knife and didnt see those mistakes did nothing to help you as a knife maker. He thought about it for a minute and then thanked me for my honest apprasial of his work.

So Corduroy you are correct, do not always take things for face value. But if you ask for someone's opinion be prepared to take it and then thank the person for their time.

Come on guys, still waiting for those experiences's and as Corduroy pointed out we need some credentials!

You guys tell me who I should be looking at. Lets hear about the new guys out there doing great work.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
Well I'm no expert in combat/ fighting knives, and I only have one "fighting" knife, a Randall #16 (which is actually not designed for fighting, but diving). However I did order the book "The Fighting Knife" by W.D. Randall, Jr. and Col. Rex Applegate when I bought my Randall. The foreword was written by E.R.H. Pollak, Wing Commander, R.A.F.. Introduction (and a lot of quotations throughout the first section) was written by George Bird Metacalf, Capt. U.S.M.C.R., former C.O. Raider Replacement School. His credential: "Writing isn't my field, but I have seen and dealt with enough knives, (while in the hands of anyone but friends) to be on intimate terms with the topic". Note that this book was written in 1944 during WWII for soldiers. It literally teaches you how to kill with your knife. Just remember this was the real thing, WWII. You either kill or be killed.

So do you expect to use you knife to kill (in a combat situation) in 1999? "A knife is needed on infiltration missions; whenever secrecy must be preserved; on assassination missions; whenever silence is necessary; whenever surprise is needed; in close combat and in dense cover; where friend and foe are too closely intermingled to permit the use of bullets or grenades"

Since Randall wrote the book, Capt. Metcalf recommended his model #1 and #2. He suggested #1 because "the fully sharpened side has slightly more of a curve <compare with #2> towards the point, permitting utility use as well as fighting.... In the case of a soldier who may have to use his knife for utility work, as well as for fighting". Randall himself recommended #14 and #15 because they are "More heavily-made than Model 1, they combine features of both a combat and survival knife." So the design goals at that time were: "first, a design effective for killing the enemy; second, a design suitable for most of the other purposes where a knife is needed." Randall designed his #1 "after talking to men who had been into the battle areas and had found what was needed."

So what kind of design is good? "A long-bladed kinfe has been found to be less maneuverable than one with seven or eight-inch blade, which is generally long enough for the slash and thrust type of strokes found most effective in close combat knife fighting; a longer knife is apt to be unwieldy." "THE BLADE is similar to the double-edged type knife, in that it is sharpened part way down the back of the blade, making its penetration very near that of the full double-edged knife..... can be used with the upstroke, downstroke, forehand stroke, backhand stroke, or stunning blow with the butt." "THE HANDLE is designed so that it may be gripped effectively in either of two ways.... The hilt is large enough to give proper protection to the hand and is shaped properly to fit the grip."

Please don't argue with me, as I'm only quoting what the experts said. But if you want to argue based on your experience, then I like to know how may people have you killed with your knife? If you assume today's soldier will not use his knife as a weapon, then the topic shall be changed to utility/camping knife.

[This message has been edited by barnaby (edited 01 July 1999).]
 
Mr. Power,

I apologize. I have a bad habit of throwing threads off-topic. I'll cease and desist.

To that end, thank you Mr. Robertson for a very well-considered reply. I won't say more here, but it was much appreciated.

------------------

-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Barnaby,

If you go back and read my posts, you will see that I clearly state that my knife was not used for offensive purposes.

As for quoting verbage from 50 years ago, much of that is now outdated as well. THis is why the Unite States Special Operations Command (SOCOM) contracted Heckler and Koch to produce a silenced .45 and not a purhcase a special "killing". We as human's have become much more efficient at killing each other.

As you stated you have no expertise and are only qouting individuals from 50+ years past.

As for how many people have I killed. Fortunatley, the number is 0. However, the US Army insured that was given the tools, the training and the proper mental attitude to do so.

I will tell you that I was involved in one fight where a individual pulled a knife on me. He suffered a Broken Collar Bone, Broken wrist, Dislocated Knee and 3 broken ribs. Had I not been the generous indvidual that I am, he could have easily been killed.

Make no mistake, the attitiude of a warrior is as important as the weapon and the training. Most people who buy guns and knives for "defensive" purposes lack the resolve to use them.

My experience has been that, those who are the most leathal try to avoid conflict at all cost. As they understand just how frail a human being is. Also, that the taking of a human life should always be the last choice.



------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
Wow, Les. Digging foxholes with Brend # 2.
That's an ultimate job I wanna try, but not with my knife.
smile.gif


You told us the strength of D-2 Brend, which I have no doubt. I just wonder why I always see the Brends available in ATS-34 (have never seen one in D-2 on your site). If I want one in D-2 I need to special-order from Walter ? (that sounds like a long wait ?).
Does he/you find that ATS-34 Brends sell better than D-2 ones?

Actually I once saw an impressive # 2- 10" on your site made in A-2. (in 1989?). I think A-2 is a good choice on large knife, but it seems he would make it no more. This tends to suggest that the market demands knives that require less maintenance in the field (more stain-resistance) than performance ? Or it might be that more of the buyers nowadays are collectors like me than the real soldiers who really use the knives to its extreme. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Another thing about Model # 2 Brends is I used to see the version that has sawteeth.
I like the appearance but again rarely see one available. Maybe most people hate the sawteeth ?

Cheers,
Dew.


 
Les,

A couple of observations:

{Military personel (with a few exceptions) receive no knife training. In todays military most personel are not allowed to even carry a knife.}
So we have now defined a combat fixed blade to be a utility knife only and will not be used for killing. That makes choosing the best combat knife, at any price, much easier. To me, that will be a easy to carry prybar with an edge and has to be easy to maintain in the field. It shall be a tough utility/ camping/ survival knife.

Unlike Les who has military credential, I only use my knives for camping and utility purposes. However when I say camping, I mean wilderness camping, survival style. I literally use my fixed blade as an axe, with minimal cutting chore, as it has to provide me with shelter, fire and (may be) food. For utility work around the house, that includes cutting down trees upto 8" diameter. Not just cut it down, but into pieces for yard waste disposal. I also use it for digging and prying, and whatever the situation requires.

From personal experience, the Schrade Extreme Survival (US$100 only) is not the best, but definitely a good utility knife. It is very close to the definition of "a prybar with an edge". As a bonus, it also has a saw back that ACTUALLY works. Of course it is nowhere near as good as a real saw, but for utility work, sure beat a knife without the saw. The forged stainless steel holds an edge pretty good. Probably not as good as D2, but it is virtually maintenance free. I could not make it rust under normal using conditions, including salt water. Coating to me is a joke for hard using utility knives, unless you intend to throw it away at the end of your mission. The knife is very easy to sharpen, and the sheath (with two utility pouches) is well designed and well made. IMHO Schrade's sheath works MUCH better than Randall's, and I've both the leather and nylon sheath from Randall.

Most people assocaites a more expensive knife to be better made, and a hand made one to be even better. All I can see is an expensive hand made one has better fit and finish, and the maker is willing to use better material in the knife. For heat treatment, some custom makers don't even do their own heat treat. But why do you care for the fit and finish if you're using it for hard utility works? I destroyed the finish of my Schrade in the first 15 minutes of use. As for toughness, an expensive knife with better material and heat treament will be better than a factory one of the EXACT same design, but the factory knife can always compensate this by altering the design. In the case of the Schrade, it has more steel towards the edge and full thickness almost to the tip.

I don't mind paying more for a custome knife, but why spend the extra if you are going to abuse it, while the cheaper one can do the job just fine? My Schrade has proofed to me that it will not fail during hard use, and that is all I need from a knife. Sure the Randall or other custome knives are better, but if you have to dig and cut steel drums all the time, pretty soon you'll need to buy another one, no matter how good is the steel.

{I will tell you that I was involved in one fight where a individual pulled a knife on me. He suffered a Broken Collar Bone, Broken wrist, Dislocated Knee and 3 broken ribs. Had I not been the generous indvidual that I am, he could have easily been killed.}
Since we are talking about combat knives and you're a military type, I assumed that fight toke place in a battle. Given that {Military personel (with a few exceptions) receive no knife training} and his knife probably was not designed for fighting, I'm not surprise by the outcome. You are actually quite safe when facing a knife wielding opponent, since those who are trained on how to kill with their knives are at their 70's now. Just remember knife fighting is a technique that still exists (at least in wirtten form), and I don't think you, or an average soldier, can come out alive, if you are facing a trained knife attacker with nothing but your bare hands.


[This message has been edited by barnaby (edited 01 July 1999).]
 
Les, you have asked for credentials, here are mine such as they are.

I have been a serious student of various martial arts for the last twelve years and prior to that I was trying in my backyard whatever knife related info I could glean thru the writings of Leroy Thompson and Mas Ayoob in my backyard with live blades (what mom does not know, eh?) I have trained in the filipino arts, as well as with little underground groups and also with several vets with many incidents between them involving live blades. I do not claim to be an expert, but rather someone who has found a way to incorporate knife use into daily life naturally and comfortably. I have reached a turning point in my training and use of blade, beginning to carry fixed blades as opposed to folders for the simple reason of durability, ease of use and even less chance of failure than the best made folders. My spydie will always be in my pocket, but the fixed will be in my waistband or briefcase or car if I can help it.

I, too have been involved in situations where a blade was present and I am not very proud of it, it says to me that I lost the chance to diffuse the situation and it escalated. Fortunately, no one was hurt too bad, egos aside, and life goes on with us all a little smarter.

My choices for a combat knife are based on training with some rather nasty people, my evolution of a style that I will discuss with you off-line if you would like (long time, rambling, phiosophies behind, etc.) but I feel that combat for us civilians is unfortunately going to be a lot different than vets and military types. We are not given much of the mind trainnig that the military offers so I for one have had to develop it on my own. I have not had the unfortunate experience of having to load up for a combat drop, so my choices are based on what I would need for an unfortunately violent encounter in the civilian world.

I would prefer to have any of the knives I mentioned above for the simple fact that they will better remove a hand from a wrist or head from a body than a spyderco endura, not to mention better reach, leverage and arcs of engagement. They will all penetrate better into the body or deeper anyway than a three inch folder, but I chose these blades individually for the following reasons:

K-Bar Have extensive live blade training with it and am very comfortable with it, and two million marines cannot all be wrong.

CS Recon tanto: I have one and dollar for dollar it works well. Very sharp, excellent point, great slasher. Sheath stinks pure and simple, too lazy thus far to have a new one made

Lainhart/ Hoffman knives: they move well and behave beautifully in my hand. Were purpose designed to be great fighters as well as utility knives.

Bagwell: How can you say no to a knife made for you that removes things like a chainsaw, has three blade catchers and moves like a flyswatter with an eleven inch blade? I want to train with mine first hard, b/c the only other Bowie I have great experience with in using is a Trail master and that feels like a sharp 2x4.

The livesay: I like newt's blades and find them a great balde for the buck. It handles well, they take good edges and come with good sheaths. They work well for me in my east meets west blend of technique.

Kukri: I like it b/c of its incredible sheearing and cutting/ choopin ability in the right hands. I find the techniques from a kukri can also lend themselves after a fashion to a Livesay Airmobile assaul or a similar shaped knife.

Above all, I like these b/c they inspire confidence in me and my talents as well as they can carry over in my hand form one knife to the other.

I left out the BM Nimravus I just bought, as well as the livesay Uji (concealable tanto hideout), the NRG non-mag or the MOD razorback as these really do not meet the traditional combat knife definition. But in this ever-increasingly unpredictable world, combat takes on many forms and iterations. Maybe combat is what happens on the streets of New York as well as the jungles of Burma, perhaps even more so b/c we cannot leggally carry the firearms here in Illinois that would reasonably defend ourselves from the AK toting teenager. Sorry if this went a bit, but you did ask.


I agree that the best combat knife is the one you have and have traineed with, I hear all too often "I will just shoot the villain" but the gun is usually at home when the bigmouth makes this statement. this is why I train with multiple knives and I figure if I own it I have to like it and train with it, lese it is a waste. Thus my trading off the Fer de Lance.

Parker
 
Barnaby,

The right tool for the right job. This is why I carried several knives while in the field.

No, the fight took place outside of a bar while I was in college. My opponent underestimated his opponent. And the fact that I had been training in Kendo (and had just received my Shodan in this art. Add this to a Shodan in Shoto-Kan Karate).

Unfortunately, for my opponent he waited to long to attack, he gave me time to pick up a 30 inch piece of conduit pipe. The wrist was the first thing I broke, followed by a strike to the collar bone, a roundhouse to the ribs and finally a take down with a strike to the knee. He had no chance.

Barnaby, any knife can be a fighting knife. So yes, your combat knife in a bad sitiuation can become a fighting knife as well.

Parker, as for carrying a gun, yes I do. In GA you can carry a gun concealled. I like you have an extensive martial arts background. Additionally, the Army spent a lot of money to teach me how to shoot.

I find the firearm will diffuse the sitiuation a lot quicker than a knife. Too many opponents will not give the knife it's proper due. And should you not be as well versed in using the knife as you would like, you may find this weapon used against you.


If you do have to use the knife, there is a very good chance that you will get bloody, both from your opponents knife and his bodily fluids. In todays world being exposed to an opponents blood my not be the healthiest thing that could happen to you. Aids and hepetitas are very real concerns that should be addressed when considering a knife fight.

A firearm will generally allow you enough space to retreat and difuse the situation without firing a shot. As we all know it takes little or no skill to point a gun at someone 5 feet away and pull the trigger.

On the other hand using a knife is a different story. This is not to say that a knife in the hands of someone who has no training cannot be leathal. Hundreds of men are killed every year by their wives who snatch the butcher knife out of the kitchen. And lets not forget Loraine Bobbit!

Most states veiw a knife in the same vein as a gun. If this is the case in your state, your better off carrying a gun. Some states like Texas, the penalty is actually greater for carrying a knife than a gun.

After you stab, slash or cut your opponent. That is when the next phase will come into play. The LAW. Arrest, arraignment, bail, trail, hopefully acquital. Then the bill from the Lawyer. Probably, a law suit from the person you cut. Better keep that extra $20,000 handy.

Boys and girls if your going to carry it, know how to use it. If your going to use it, try and make it "private" and dispose of the evidence. If your going to get caught make damn sure you kill the person and that it was self defense. This will help keep your legal bills to a minimum.

------------------
Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
Combat knives...fighting knives, D2, ATS, O-1, yadda, yadda, yadda.... You guys can get pretty esoteric with this stuff. This really is quite subjective. Look guys...I've been there...done that. The best combat knife is the one that talks to YOU when it's in your hand! (Assuming the blade geometry is conducive to the intended task(s).) The one that talks to me is my specially configured Randall #14 with cut-down tang, leather handle, single hilt, and "birds-head" pommel. The knife has a nice "sweet spot" on the belly and is an excellent chopper. A combat knife must be able to perform a wide variety of tasks...the least of which is killing another human.

Richard
 
Richard,

Randall 14 is a pretty good knife. Although the steel that Randall is using needs to be updated. I heard rumors they are looking at using ATS-34. Just as everyone is leaving that vastly overated steel behind.

Been there, done that. Exactly what would that be?

By the description of your knife, sounds like you should have bought a Model 15.

The Randall Model 14 was my favorite Randall, I've bought and sold over 50 of them. However, I stopped dealing in Randall's when I saw the tip break off a Model 14 at Northern Warfare School in Alaska (true it was -30. I guess Randall should Cryo treat their blades like Walter Brend does). During Jungle school I saw the leather handle start to disingrate from the onset of jungle rot.

Yada Yada Yada, Randall's are great time tested designs. However, my experience has been that put to hard use they fail more than they should.

Richard, you are correct though when you state Combat/Utility knives are a personal choice. A good knife will seem like it comes alive in your hand.



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Les Robertson
Moderator
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
I personally can't attest to a combat knife. I have not been in combat. I do have a friend in SF who is currently deployed somewhere he can't talk about. He has three knives that he uses. He carries a folder with him always. It is currently an Emerson Raven. His fixed blades are towrds the lower end of the value scale. He mostly uses an older Ka-Bar, but if he is jumping into where ever he is headed, he carries a CS SRK. The main reason for the SRK is he has a Kydex sheath for it and not the Ka-Bar. He wants to eventually get a Randall #14. He said most of the SF guys he knows carry less expensive knives. The main reason he explains is when you are working with military of other countries, there is a lot of trading of personal items and a lot of theft. He doesn't want to lose an expensive knife because of that. He said he is actually quite pleased with the performance of his knives. He has used them to do most of the duties you would associate to a serious work knife. He won't tell me a lot about what he has done in the field, but fighting with a knife is something he has yet to do. As far as sentry removal with a knife, he has been trained for it, but the tool of choice for that is a suppressed weapon.

From what I have heard from my friend and read from some people who have been there and done that, the low end knives are being severely under rated in terms of their performance. I doubt if I will ever be in combat or use a knife to the point that it will break.
 
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