Your choice of steel for Mules #6, 7, and 8

I love the Mules for the design as well as the steels. I love how sharp they are so I definitely would not want then as a tough knife design.

Sal you know where to send me one of those 2 millie prototypes!
 
Unsub said:
I love the Mules for the design as well as the steels. I love how sharp they are so I definitely would not want then as a tough knife design.

Sal you know where to send me one of those 2 millie prototypes!
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I thought I had called dibs....:p

No. A super crazy knife like that wouldn't be in my interests. Not to mention it'd drive the price up pretty high. I am looking forward to the 9Cr15MoV one though. It should be a bit cheaper, and fun to play with.

Now if I didn't have to keep buying custom handle sets!
 
There seem to be quite a few people wanting a mule in 3V. It showed up well in past polls also. There have been some really good other steels mentioned too.

I'll be a happy camper and buy whichever ones Sal is able to fit in to the mule team program.I'd sure rather have a complete set of Mules than State quarters, or presidential dollars! :) Joe
 
update: as of 11/29/08

3V is leading requests with 13
10V is second with 9
CPM154cm 3rd. with 8
BG42 still has fans with 6 requests
20CV, Cruwear, S7, A2, and H1 are all tied with 4 each
19C,VG10, L6, Aogami(super blue), and 15V all were selected 3 times each.
D2,9V,CPMD2,YXR7, and Damasteel each got 2 requests.
14 other steels got a vote.

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
update: as of 11/29/08

3V is leading requests with 13
10V is second with 9
CPM154cm 3rd. with 8
BG42 still has fans with 6 requests
20CV, Cruwear, S7, A2, and H1 are all tied with 4 each
19C,VG10, L6, Aogami(super blue), and 15V all were selected 3 times each.
D2,9V,CPMD2,YXR7, and Damasteel each got 2 requests.
14 other steels got a vote.

Joe
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3V I get, but 154 being third? How many people already own a 154 knife or dozen? It's a fairly common steel to most here. (I'm still rooting for H1 or Super Blue :thumbup: )

Thanks for the tally Joe. :)
 
Josh, CPM154cm is the same chemically as 154cm but it's given crucibles PM treatment. It takes this already excellent steel, and betters it. It's known for taking better finishes, and can take slightly higherRC's, better edge stability and wear resistance at these higher RC's. Quite a few custom makers swear by this stuff. ( note: I'm having trouble with this post)
 
The Mastiff said:
Josh, CPM154cm is the same chemically as 154cm but it's given crucibles PM treatment. It takes this already excellent steel, and betters it. It's known for taking better finishes, and can take slightly higherRC's, better edge stability and wear resistance at these higher RC's. Quite a few custom makers swear by this stuff. ( note: I'm having trouble with this post)
Click to expand...

Ah. So "normal" steels, when using the CPM process become a bit better and different. :thumbup: Thanks again Joe.
 
Ah. So "normal" steels, when using the CPM process become a bit better and different
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Yes. CPM D2 is another old standby that they did using their process and it came out, in my opinion, better. It is easier to sharpen, and takes better edges. I've heard it's slightly tougher due to the process, though I sure haven't tested anything to destruction.

It's one reason the CPM D2 millies from the sprint run are so hard to find now. I believe the D2 paramilitary is still available.

By the way, S30V, S90V, 440V/S60V, 10V,3V etc. are all made using the atomization process.

Good stuff, Joe
 
CPM 3v

G2 (that's me, not a steel, although my wife says I'm pretty easy :) )
 
The Mastiff said:
Yes. CPM D2 is another old standby that they did using their process and it came out, in my opinion, better. It is easier to sharpen, and takes better edges. I've heard it's slightly tougher due to the process, though I sure haven't tested anything to destruction.

It's one reason the CPM D2 millies from the sprint run are so hard to find now. I believe the D2 paramilitary is still available.

By the way, S30V, S90V, 440V/S60V, 10V,3V etc. are all made using the atomization process.

Good stuff, Joe
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I have a CPM D-2 Millie and it's awesome! :thumbup::p:thumbup:
 
Those millies are pretty highly sought after now. They go quickly here in the forums. Sal just kind of put it together to test out the steel and get feedback from the end users and it turned out to be one of the best balanced, best performing of the millie line for no more money than the standard S30V model.

I'm impressed with it and I don't really like much D2, unless it's like Dozier or other type quality offering. I've had too many cheap ones in that steel.

As long as we are talking about successfull CPM steels I sure would like to try 10V.

Though not that far off on paper I've heard it really has much more wear resistance than S90V.

Sal could probably do without it from a production standpoint. Joe
 
Update
3V up to 14
10V still second with 9
BG42 now tied with CPM 154cm with 8
H1 & Aogami "super blue" now have 5
20CV, cruware/vascowear, S7, A2, all with 4
CPM D2, 19C, VG10, L6, and 15V have 3
Cowry X /Y, 9V,D2,YXR7 ( high speed steel), Damasteel all have 2 votes
Some really great steels only got 1 vote each for some reason. Examples SG2, M2,AEBL,OU31, S110V ( perhaps better than S90V?), Vandis 4, SRS15,440C,X15TN,12C27, 13C26, VG1,
Some proprietary steels which aren't practical for this project are Infi, R2,SR101. They got a couple votes.

Not practical for other reasons M48, 15V ( actually got 3 votes), lastly Super G1
 
The Mastiff said:
Update
3V up to 14
10V still second with 9
BG42 now tied with CPM 154cm with 8
H1 & Aogami "super blue" now have 5
20CV, cruware/vascowear, S7, A2, all with 4
CPM D2, 19C, VG10, L6, and 15V have 3
Cowry X /Y, 9V,D2,YXR7 ( high speed steel), Damasteel all have 2 votes
Some really great steels only got 1 vote each for some reason. Examples SG2, M2,AEBL,OU31, S110V ( perhaps better than S90V?), Vandis 4, SRS15,440C,X15TN,12C27, 13C26, VG1,
Some proprietary steels which aren't practical for this project are Infi, R2,SR101. They got a couple votes.

Not practical for other reasons M48, 15V ( actually got 3 votes), lastly Super G1
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I think Sal said that the next Mule is going to be S90V. 3V would be nice, I still want to se some in H1 and super blue. BG-42 would be nice, but not as tough (I think).

Thanks for the tally Joe. :thumbup:
 
No problem Josh. I'm looking foreward to the next 3 mules at least. S90V would be fun, and well made too knowing Spyderco. Last Sal spoke about BG42 was when he talked about how much it had gone up in price, and it is taking over a year for delivery on an order.

He is one to have an ace up his sleeve some times. He surprised us initially with the BG42 Millies, The CPM D2 millies, as well as models and sprints of knives over the years. I know enough to know that anything's possible with Sal, but I also know that there are a few things that are improbable too.

For me, the big one now that the M4 mule has been done would be 10V, the ruling champ of wear resistance ( not counting impractical steels like 15V, MPL-1, T15, Rex 121, etc. which are near as wear resistant as pure tungsten, almost as brittle too. Not really knife steel, though I do know a couple of maniacs have done it)

10V would be the benchmark

Catra results of Spyderco's tests:
440C 360-400
VG10 500-510
S30V 550-580
S90V 750
ZDP 189 750
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S125V 1200 Note* not made anymore


What Phil Wilson said about S30V, S90V and 10V from a post he wrote about S30V
The edge holding on S30V at RC 60 and sharpened as above is more than 30% better than ATS34/154CM. S90V is another step up and 10V is in it own category.
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found here:

Thread: S30V, your conclusions? View Single Post
#35 04-11-2006, 05:33 PM
Phil Wilson
Basic Member Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northern California, in the heart of the Gold Country
Posts: 233

HOB, Cliff, Thom, all

I have read all this with interest and I have to respond. I introduced S30V with a couple of articles in Blade magazine a few years ago so I am responsible for some of the “hype” being mentioned here. Some history; At that time Crucible was the only steel company out there that had any interest in making a new steel that had all the qualities of a good knife steel. They talked to several of us and came up with the criteria to shoot for. The main reason for this is that S90V (upgrade for S-60V) was tough to heat treat. The problem was if you wanted to take advantage of the high wear resistance of 90V you had to get it heat treated some where. Paul Bos declined most of the time because the temp required for it was in excess of 2100 F. That was at the upper end of what his furnace could do and still have decent element life. There were also a lot of complaints about how hard S90V was to finish. This is due to the very high Vanadium Carbide percentage in this alloy. With less carbide percentage, S30V is easier to work than S90V, no question about that. So S30V was developed to mainly solve these two problems. They hit the target on both of these in my opinion. It is easy to get RC 60 with S30V at about 1950 F. I think it is easy to heat treat but it does take precise equipment and attention to detail. There is a learning curve on all high alloy steels and things like decarb and quench rate can cause some frustration. It is easier to grind and finish than S90V and this makes it possible for large production runs. This is a bigger deal than most realize. There is now a CPM steel with 4% Vanadium that can be heat treated by most commercial heat treat firms and for any custom maker who wants to buy a furnace and learn to do it himself.
There are now thousands of S30V blades out there in use. Before the introduction of S30V, S90V was the only choice for a stainless CPM and a limited one at that.
The impact toughness and bending strength turned out be a little better than S90V. I have found that to optimize the toughness a heat treat on the higher end of the data sheet range and a subzero quench and temper in the range of 400 to 600 are required. The ideal hardness range is RC 58 to RC61, with 60 being ideal. With this heat treat I can slice thick cardboard, cut rope, fillet a fish (with a very long thin flexible blade), and field dress, skin and quarter and elk with out any noticeable damage to the blade. I like to grind blades thin (.010 to .015 at the edge) and sharpen at about 15 degrees. Sharpening medium can be Silicon Carbide Norton fine or medium stone or the green or red DMT diamond. Remove the burr with a loaded leather strop. I –have- seen fine edge chipping on S30V by whittling dry Douglass Fir and twisting the blade out of the cut. The same thing will happen with 154CM, S90V, ZDP189 (rc66) and BG42. I do not have any VG10 blades to play with so can’t comment on that steel. The edge holding on S30V at RC 60 and sharpened as above is more than 30% better than ATS34/154CM. S90V is another step up and 10V is in it own category. This is all based on rope cutting tests I have done with the knives of the same blade geometry and sharpened the same. My testing is not as precise as what Cliff is doing, but correlates with the data that Spydeco gets with the CATRA machine. Here is the order based on what Sal (Spyderco) has related to me..

440C 360-400
VG10 500-510
S30V 550-580
S90V 750
ZDP 189 750
S125V 1200
VG 10 is not available to the custom maker as far as I know so if we want a steel better than 440C/ATS34/154CM for some applications then it going to be CPM 154 or CPM S30V at this point. Crucible had good representation at the Oregon show this last weekend and they were interested in how the production and custom makers were doing with their steels. They were also prepared to help with any problems and were offering free advice to any who would listen. As has been said many times, the right steel for the application, IMO S30V makes a great cutting slicing type blade where corrosion resistance and edge holding are important
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VG-10 isn't publicly availble? Would that have something to do with it being a Seki city steel? (Like proprietary steel).

How does S90V stack up to BG-42? I heard that the BG-42 was hardened a bit higher, and I know that both CF models of the military are in S90V and BG-42. I have the 90V one, and I like it a lot. I'm considering getting a BG-42 one, but is it really more of the same? Like ATS-34 compared to 154CM?

I as well will be watching the Mule lineup closely. It's going to be interesting to be sure. :) (Maybe a 420JS clad ZDP before summer? )
 
H1, O1, and CPM 3V

then,

A2, D2, and W2

Really I just like trying all the steels in the same "package". Now I need to order some removable scales from Potterma.
 
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