Your life vs. laws...

D

drjones

Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
913
Ok. This is going to be a long one...

I've been struggling lately with issues concerning weapons and the law. In my state, (CA) its basically impossible to carry any effective weapon legally. Yet I still carry several implements that would probably get me in a $hitload of trouble. (Some in my car, some on my person.)

I personally feel that "I'd rather live to fight it in the courts, rather than die in the streets."

My question is this: Where do you draw the line? Guns, knives, collapsible batons... Where do you say "I care about my life and those of my loved ones, but I'm more worried about the laws so I'm leaving my ______ at home?" I hope I'm expressing myself decently...it's 2am and I'm gettin ready to turn in...but I'm dying to know what you all think. Hell, I'll clarify in the morning, if need be.

Drjones
 
I ask myself two questions:

1. Does it work?

2. Can I carry it concealed?

I think that answered your question.

/Colinz
 
Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Personally I do carry a knife, keeping in mind that if I ever use it I could possibly end up getting run over by the wheels of justice in the aftermath. Its my choice and I neither encourage or discourage others to do the same. I guess this is something anyone who considers carrying a weapon (or a tool that could be termed as a "weapon" by the law) has to decide for themselves.

Andrew Limsk
 
I'm a little confused by your question. CA gun laws are horrible, don't even try to get a carry permit or own an "asault weapon". However, I beleive it is legal to carry ANY LENGTH folder, concealed, in CA. That means you can carry a Vaquero Grande, Madd Maxx, SIFU, etc. perfrectly legally, as long as it's concealed.
 
tough choice.

1st question, hows your training? do you train in a martial art? which one? CA has a LOT of good instructors in edged weapons and unarmed fighting, so you have a good opportunity for training their.

gear should be secondary. if you can do it well without good gear will make it better, but toys are not a replacement for skill.

2nd thing, whats legal? if you live in some counties you may be able to score a ccw. if you cant, i have heard that carrying a consealed firearm in a misdemeanor in CA, DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR THAT THOUGH.
knives like the cuda maxx, emerson commander, super commander or CS 6 inch voyagers are legal. surefire hi-intensity flashlights are legal too.
those are not bad options for legal carry. not as good as a gun, but legal and not bad at all provided you can use them.

3rd thing...Illegal carry. consider something small if you really want to carry. just remember if you use it all **** is likely going to break loose on your ass. you may survive to go to court, and if you do, have a good lawyer on retainer.
Read Marc McYoung's book on street evasion and escape. that may help you avoid using any weapons you dont want to use, and possibly help you learn how to clear out of an area if you do.

Have you thought of starting a buisness so you can "carry large amounts of cash to make deposits" and get a CCW?

as to sticks, police usualy don't pay attention to koppo sticks and kubbotons. If you get something like a v-gar, who will know you have it on you till you use it.

This brings me to #4, behavior while carrying illegaly to not get busted.
dress nicely and be polite to people and maybe even be nice to policemen as you go about your buisness. If you like dressing in grunge and leather with the 3 piercing on your face with the chain going down to your nads you are going to attract attention.
Sorry, thats the way thing work.

I have to ask? do you drink or do drugs? If you are from CA and you do neither of those 2 thing, your weird. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I know some people like to smoke weed, if you do, thats cool. I don't have any problem with it, I dont do it, but lots of people do.

If you are carrying illegaly, or even legaly, your habbit ends.
You are not allowed to get stoned and go armed. that may make you do or say something stupid.

Doing stupid things = attention from police.

see...?
we want to let the nice policeman go on with his day, we want to just wave hi, tell him a nice joke about 3 nuns entering heavan washing with holy water any part of their body that touched a dick...and them leave him alone and have him leave us alone.

do something stupid and that will get you a threshold inqury, "hi I'm officer X, what are you guys doing here?" which can easily lead to a pat down and then as you get frisked...
and the cop finds you with a koppo stick, cuda maxx, commander and a paracord garrotte and the policeman wonders "why is this guy better armed than I am...???"

that kind of thing leads to questions which you probably would like not asked which can get to be a bitch when the policemen ask if you have anyother weapons and show them the .25 beretta they forgot that was tucked behind your big TEXAS belt buckel.

(for some reason police go ape when they ask if you had any other weapons and you show them that yes, yes you DO have more...wonder why)

in summary, train, then get gear.
find what gear is legal.
Find what you can get away with without attracting attention. you may not be able to carry that colt 1911. you man have to slum with a baretta .25 if thats all you can hide.
Dress nicely and attract no attention to your self that would make police or anyone else go HUMMMMMMMMMM?????

you may be surprised that you can gather an effective loadout without breaking the law provided you can use it all.
 
I've had a NYS ccw for 20 years.I draw the line for carring a pistol at the state line,won't chance that,..but I have brought guns with me out of state.Keep them in my car when traveling and at the house of my hosts when I get there.I don't worry about my knife being a little over the local limit.
 
You have to weigh the danger you incur by carrying versus the danger you incur by not carrying. Who are you more likely to be confronted by, BG's or LEO's?

While you can't carry an auto, gun, baton, or concealed fixed blade, you can legally carry any size manual folder concealed, any size fixed blade openly, and OC. Kubotans and similar things are legal as long as they're not metal (and plastic will be illegal beginning in 2003 IIRC), and I'm not sure that all cops are going to know this, so they might not notice it. For where you are and what you do, with the training you have, if you cannot legally arm yourself as well as you feel need to in order to get home safely, then you need to carry more than that.

Some cities have stricter laws than state laws for knife carry, and you can look into that if you care to.

Some people are reluctant to carry illegal weapons because they're afraid of what will happen to them if they have to use those weapons. That's not something I worry about at all. If I need something to defend myself, I don't care if it's legal or not, I'll just be glad I have it, and I'd be happy to be tried by twelve considering the alternative. If I were to carry illegal weapons what I'd be worried about is getting searched and caught while not using them (which, we know, is most of the time). Then I'm tried by twelve when the alternative would have been "you're free to go now, have a nice day."

It's a judgment call, and if you feel you need to break our stupid unconstitutional laws, I say go ahead and do it. Just be aware of the risk you incur by doing so. And dress nicely and behave politely to offset that risk. I wouldn't, however, expect a LEO to cut you a break just because you're a good citizen who only wants to defend himself. The BG's are already your enemies, and if you carry illegally to deal with them, LEO's become your enemies as well, and that's not always a good thing, even if it is a necessary thing.

I'm sure more than half of the BFC members have, at one time or other, broken the laws of wherever they live. Some only once, some on a daily basis. Stories of BFC members jailed are fairly rare, and many of those that are were actually obeying the law when they were "caught." A good lawyer could be worth his weight in ammo. Make the decision that's best for you, just make it an informed decision, and be sure that what you're getting yourself into is better than what you're getting yourself out of.
 
The most effective safety measures are to avoid danger. I moved out of California, but there are things you can do to improve your odds within the state. Number 1 one my list is to avoid bars, drunks get violent and also attract predators. Don't wander around alone to places like ATM's at night. Watch where you go and when, particularly if you are alone. If you think you need to take a weapon to the place you are going, try and avoid going there entirely.

Consider using non-weapons as weapons. For example carry a stout cane and keep some ace bandages at home. If anyone asks about the cane your story is that you sprained your ankle a couple weeks ago. The cane will give you greater reach than any concealed weapon short of a gun or a throwing knife. Keep a couple golf clubs on the back seat of your car if you are an older guy, keep a baseball bat, glove, and ball on the back seat if you are younger. A rolled-up magazine makes a relatively large and effective yawara stick. A rock in a sock makes an effective club--just don't have the sock in the rock when stopped by a cop. For that matter there are times when it can be real handy to have a rock when it isn't expected. If that rock is a nicely polished split geode it is just a collector's piece that you plan to show a friend.

Think outside the box. Think of things that won't fit inside the box.
 
After reading all of this these points, as usual I see the common trend. Us, law abiding and contributing citizens feel we must protect ourselves. Such feelings have been proved legitamate millions of times throughout all history. We SHOULD be allowed by our government to carry a gun for our protection. Yet, our government feels they know better.

Here we are wondering if we can carry a certain knife legally. When down the street there is gangster or some other criminal packin' a gun and doesn't think twice about it. Our government havs made society an unsafe place for us law abiding citizen. We are afraid to protect ourselves in fear of the government coming down on us.

Well, there's so much more I want to say. I just can't stand this. Of course, there aren't an better countries...
This country will go down the same road as England and Australia. If you shoot and kill a burglar who is trying to kill you, you go to prison for 20 years.

The government is suppose to protect us, and they don't. And then they come down on us when we atempt to protect ourselves.

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty; when the people fear the government, there is tyranny." --Thomas Jefferson

Do we fear the govenment, or does the government fear us? There is a little too much tyranny is you ask me.
 
Here's a hot one : In the "sunshine state" if you want to
carry your blade concealed it requires a permit! Otherwise,
you can carry in the open with no hassles ;) ( even if only "double takes" by the LEO's )I think "open carry" is a sound idea as it
does serve as a measure of "threat deterrent" ( unless you come up against a "gangbanger" with his Glock! ;)) the sheepish types shy away, and the real threats can either attack, or think twice. In Florida, if one uses their blade/pistol/pepper spray/stun gun/etc. for
"lawful defense" it's viewed favorably by the Courts. Of course, the BG's lawyer will cry foul, but the law here seems to favor the citizen
not the criminal element, as in many states.

A.E.T. ;)
 
"Do you know brethren-for I am speaking to those who know the law-that the law is binding on a person only during his life?"

Romans 7:1 ;)

A.E.T. ;)
 
I carry Benchmade 710s, 730s, a Lil' Temperance, and a Gerber Covert, and feel pretty well equiped. I frequently carry a fixed blade on weekends, and simply try to make sure it is visible.

I have always felt that vigilence, CQC training, and a couple of sturdy folding knives are enough. I have always figured that if two or three BGs work me before I can before I can spot it and avoid it, then it wouldn't have mattered what I was packing.
 
Well put Allen. I will be under the rule of God... Life will be great in the millenial (sp?) kindom. No more lawyers, no more stupid laws etc., just perfect justice.:)
 
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It would be foolish to just buy my wife an AR-15 if I neglected to buy good locks for the house, alarms, etc.

I should be able to walk in Harlem at 3:00 AM, it's America. However, you pick which issues are important in your life.

I bought my wife an SUV, a cell phone with a road-side repair hot-line, her own check book, a flashlight and, of course, a Kershaw Boa. I think security is a mind set and a complete system rather than one magic tool.
 
In Cali, any folder is o.k. concealed, but not opened and concealed. Kubotans are not illegal, to my knowledge, and I checked the penal code online, adn could not find a reference to kubotan.

In my LEO experience, the only folks who I have arrested with illegal weapons, the weapons violations have been secondary: there's always been another reason why I came into contact with the individual.

So, I'm not saying to break the law, but remember common sense goes a LONG WAY!

--dan
 
Originally posted by RH
I'm a little confused by your question. CA gun laws are horrible, don't even try to get a carry permit or own an "asault weapon". However, I beleive it is legal to carry ANY LENGTH folder, concealed, in CA. That means you can carry a Vaquero Grande, Madd Maxx, SIFU, etc. perfrectly legally, as long as it's concealed.
Click to expand...
This just to underscore RH and Steve Harvey's post, it is perfectly legal to carry a folder concealed in Ca. with any length blade, so long as it is not auto. Also you can carry fixed blade knife so long as it is NOT concealed. Gun laws are bad here but knife law are better than in most other states.
Martin
 
Georgia

Got a permit for concealed carry. Glock 26 goes with me almost everywhere I go. Have a good pocket holster that keeps the butt up, disguises the outline and is required by Georgia law (holster, that is).

Never had to use it, but it is very comforting. I also do stay away from adverse situations, but am as ready as possible if those sitautions come looking for me.
 
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