Your opinion on phenolic laminates, difference among 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns ???

T

tiancode

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Jun 11, 2016
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I am trying to wrap my head around the phenolic laminates material. There are just so many options.

Which one is more desirable for use as knife scales/handles? 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns???
 
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tiancode, where are you discerning this difference in thread count? I've used/use a lot of Micarta and made a fair amount of 'Mycarta' and I haven't run across any marketing of it with the 'yarn count' you mention. Having said that, I personally would lean toward a higher count of whatever threads were in the base material for my choice. I would think higher thread count is more dense--which I feel is a good thing in handle materials.
 
I use canvas to burlap with great results. Canvas is more attractive to me but there are others who like the burlap look.

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tiancode said:
I am trying to wrap my head around the Micarta material. There are just so many options.

Which one is more desirable for use as knife scales/handles? 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns???
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2418462056e629e106ca18fa252e0877.jpg


This is a good time canvas

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tiancode said:
I am trying to wrap my head around the Micarta material. There are just so many options.

Which one is more desirable for use as knife scales/handles? 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns???
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e90e097e4b2feb0b1f63b019eaf6a59a.jpg


This is a green and white burlap I found at a craft store. Thread count doesn't matter.

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tiancode said:
I am trying to wrap my head around the Micarta material. There are just so many options.

Which one is more desirable for use as knife scales/handles? 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns???
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Yarn count is generally not used by US manufacturers of micarta. The only time I've seen references to yarn count is from offshore manufacturers who were soliciting me.

If "micarta" is coming from offshore it cannot be called micarta. Norplex owns the trademarked name micarta®.

Where is your micarta made?

Chuck
 
Sorry I can not tell you my supplier. But I can disclose it is a company located in Fullerton, California. Most of the small scale makers are also selling Micarta, I assume they should be called some other names?
 
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Unless it is made by Norplex, and is a phenolic laminate ... it isn't micarta. Lots of folks make their own version with polyester or epoxy resins ... but it isn't micarta.Sometimes it isn't even close to micarta. It is properly called laminated material, or a laminate for short. I like to call it MyCarta.

There is a big difference between the phenolic resins used in making real micarta and the resins used to make laminated materials.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Unless it is made by Norplex, and is a phenolic laminate ... it isn't micarta. Lots of folks make their own version with polyester or epoxy resins ... but it isn't micarta.Sometimes it isn't even close to micarta. It is properly called laminated material, or a laminate for short. I like to call it MyCarta.

There is a big difference between the phenolic resins used in making real micarta and the resins used to make laminated materials.
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There was composite factory in my town ............we call it Cotton phenolic laminates – TEKSTOFEN
 
tiancode said:
Sorry I can not tell you my supplier.
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I did not ask for your supplier. I asked where, as in what country, your "micarta" is being made.

tiancode said:
I mean, for example, materials from shadetreecustom.com. They are referred to as micarta.
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Using "someone else doing it too" as a defense does not work. Trademark laws don't care what other companies do. If you improperly use a company's registered trademark, they can legally come after you and make your life difficult.

I had a conversation with Norplex regarding their micarta® trademark. They vigorously protect it.

Chuck
 
There are other commercial phenolic laminate makers besides Norplex Micarta .... but they don't make Micarta. Most other laminate makers ( like Shadetree) use epoxy resins.

I don't recall Shane at Shadetree ever calling his products Micarta.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
I did not ask for your supplier. I asked where, as in what country, your "micarta" is being made.

Using "someone else doing it too" as a defense does not work. Trademark laws don't care what other companies do. If you improperly use a company's registered trademark, they can legally come after you and make your life difficult.

I had a conversation with Norplex regarding their micarta® trademark. They vigorously protect it.

Chuck
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I do not have information to tell you where the product is made. Why was "micarta" becoming a political issue this quickly? The word is used rather freely in many internet forums like this one to refer to certain types of materials in general. If the trademark holder felt their rights are infringed upon please sue me.

I am not sure why you are so sensitive, just because the maker of the material could be overseas? that you suspect the supplier is using the name Micarta improperly? I have no idea TBH. And the question I have is with the yarn# not the brand. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can clarify the specifics, if possible. Do you expect to listen to sort of legal teaching each time you refer to copy machines as Xerox? outdoor bathtubs as Jacuzzi? slow cookers as Crock-Pot? soft tissues as Kleenex? I do not.
 
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I would not expect to have these questions directed at me as a user of materials, but as a seller or producer of materials, I absolutely would expect to be held to task on copyright infringement, production, quality, and production location. As a product provider, your defensive response is a red flag to potential customers.
 
To answer your question regarding phenolic laminates in general, as far as knife handles are concerned, the "yarn count" is merely an aesthetic issue, I.E. canvas vs linen. Some makers prefer a coarser visual/texture, others (myself for instance) prefer a smoother finish.
Now, another reason manufacturer origin can be an issue (trademark infringment not being insignificant by any means) is that not all phenolics are necessarily suitable or preferable for knife making. Certain industrial and imported grades cut and grind worse than steel, and concerning some of the bargain "micarta" I've gotten from certain suppliers in the past, I'd just as soon throw it in the trash than ever use it again.

If you're a maker who has been offered a good deal on some different "yarn counts", get a sample of each and see what you like, but if it's bargain priced, there's a reason, and if it's produced overseas, there's an increased chance it'll be more trouble than it's worth, but YMMV.

If you're a dealer trying to gauge market interest in your product, upgrade your forum membership and start sending out free samples. You'll figure out maker preferences very quickly, I can guarantee.

EDIT: On second look, I see that you do in fact have a dealer/materials provider membership, so I'm assuming you want to know which kind of material to buy from your supplier and sell to knife makers.

Well, my answer still stands: The biggest preference isn't "yarn count", it's how well the material machines and finishes, and in my experience, not all phenolics are equal in this regard. If I have to burn up a pile of blades and belts just go get a mediocre finish, I don't care if it's $1/square foot, it's getting trashed. OTOH, if I find a reasonably priced material that machines well and looks good, I'll not only buy a pile of it, I'll recommend it.
 
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Avoid those suppliers describing "yarn count" to avoid your confusion

Buy your phenolic laminates from know suppliers like Alpha Knife Supply, Tru Grit, USA knifemaker etc.
 
tiancode said:
I mean, for example, materials from shadetreecustom.com. They are referred to as micarta.
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We do not. We make composites. Our full name is Shadetree Custom Composites.

We make fiber reinforced epoxy composite materials.

For us to refer to our stuff as "micarta" would be like building a titanium handled frame lock and trying to market it as a "Sebenza"

tiancode said:
I am trying to wrap my head around the Micarta material. There are just so many options.

Which one is more desirable for use as knife scales/handles? 10 yarns, 21 yarns, 32 yarns???
Click to expand...

Other than aesthetics, there is little to no difference between materials.
 
Sorry I did not suggest the maker of Shadetree composite referred to the products as "micarta". Just saying the name micarta is used rather freely in discussion forums to refer to Shadetree material, which I am a big fan of. In fact if you go to eBay and search "shadetree micarta" you can find quite a few listings.

Thank you for the clarification.
 
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