Your thoughts on carbon steel for hunters

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The feedback from the community here at Bladeforums is great. You all have helped me so much, I must ask to call upon you once again!

A very good friend of mine has his own hunting guide business. Spends a lot of time in Mexico, actually. Typical South Texas game of white tail deer, wild hogs, turkey, etc. He wants a knife made for himself, but probably would turn out to be a "run" of knives, which got me very excited. Actually, it may turn out to be "two" classes of knives. A "Blue" level knife with high performance carbon and quick/easy styling, and then a "Gold" level knife with high performance stainless and more complex grinds/handle work/yadda yadda. Pretty sure I will go with S35VN on the "Gold" line.

But I ask your advice, and hopefully experience, with using various carbon steels in hunting knives. While higher alloy tool steels like CPM M4 would be my choice, I'd like to stick with the more simple carbon and tool steels. This knife is going to really be put to the test, so my geometry and heat treat have to be on the money. But that leaves steel selection. My friend made the comment that he would prefer a knife that is harder to sharpen, but lasts longer, over a knife that is easy to sharpen but requires it more often.

So to boil it all down, from this list, which would you think is going to give the best edge retention on a hunter knife, very thin edge geometry, all things being equal? (kiln won't hit A2 temps, much less stainless temps)

1. 1095
2. 52100
3. W2
4. O1
5. O7 (1.2519) Very similar to Blue 2
6. Blue 2

If these steels were all you had, which would you pick for best edge retention in hunting applications? I would think it would be hard to tell the difference in all 6 of those, but you guys probably have some good input I hadn't thought of.
Thanks!
 
Although you didn't ask about opinion on the "Gold" line. My 2cents IME preference list= 1st Elmax; 2nd 20CV/M390; 3rd S35VN.

Carbon preferential list:
1st. Blue#2
Easy to achieve fine carbide + fine grain. Very good edge stability & retention. Easy to sharpen.

2nd. 52100
With good ht (normalize + 3 thermal cycles + 9secs oil quench + LN2 dip + 400F temper), it won't catch blue #2 good ht in performance. 0.5%Cr in 52100 allows it to achieve exceptional ht w/o cementite coarsening, whence it overtakes blue#2 good attributes listed above. I used up my 2 small bars of blue#2 from Dictum, yet to achieve exceptional ht but that could change once I order some blue#2 (from Aldo) and experiment some more.


The feedback from the community here at Bladeforums is great. You all have helped me so much, I must ask to call upon you once again!

A very good friend of mine has his own hunting guide business. Spends a lot of time in Mexico, actually. Typical South Texas game of white tail deer, wild hogs, turkey, etc. He wants a knife made for himself, but probably would turn out to be a "run" of knives, which got me very excited. Actually, it may turn out to be "two" classes of knives. A "Blue" level knife with high performance carbon and quick/easy styling, and then a "Gold" level knife with high performance stainless and more complex grinds/handle work/yadda yadda. Pretty sure I will go with S35VN on the "Gold" line.

But I ask your advice, and hopefully experience, with using various carbon steels in hunting knives. While higher alloy tool steels like CPM M4 would be my choice, I'd like to stick with the more simple carbon and tool steels. This knife is going to really be put to the test, so my geometry and heat treat have to be on the money. But that leaves steel selection. My friend made the comment that he would prefer a knife that is harder to sharpen, but lasts longer, over a knife that is easy to sharpen but requires it more often.

So to boil it all down, from this list, which would you think is going to give the best edge retention on a hunter knife, very thin edge geometry, all things being equal? (kiln won't hit A2 temps, much less stainless temps)

1. 1095
2. 52100
3. W2
4. O1
5. O7 (1.2519) Very similar to Blue 2
6. Blue 2

If these steels were all you had, which would you pick for best edge retention in hunting applications? I would think it would be hard to tell the difference in all 6 of those, but you guys probably have some good input I hadn't thought of.
Thanks!
 
I only have experience with W2 which seems to be an "upgraded" 1095 and O1 is just as good. 52100 might be out of the game since it is spring steel that is very easy to sharpen but won't hold an edge that long. Seeing as how I do not know what blue2 is, I'd get W2 then O1, and do research on blue 2.
 
52100 is a bearing steel and holds an edge better that 1095, while still being quite tough.
I don't have experience with Blue#2 and W2, but out of those I'd go with 52100 on both knives.
Good mix of toughness, edge retention and ease of sharpening IMHO

My 0,02 € as a knife user, no experience in knifemaking whatsoever
 
Why not m4 lol....way better edge holding than all of the above mentioned. CPM 4v, 9v, 10v, k390 all crazy edge holding also, but i have not used them.
 
Count: Carbon steel, bud, carbon steel.
Bluntcut: Thank you for that input. I tend to agree, but long term availability of Blue 2 may be a concern. Same with O7 I get from Germany, not sure how long that will last
Seilu: 52100 is not a spring steel, and due to it's carbide structure I am pretty sure would be above 1095, maybe above W2 but close? I tend to lean toward 52100 due to cost and availability in the future
C-Becker: Thanks so much
Farokhsidhwa: I would go with M4, for SURE, but I can't heat treat it in house
Cliff: I hear ya.

If I had the ability to do the heat treat myself, it would be CPM M4!! Trying to keep this in house.

Anyone have experience with O7 (1.2519, 110WCrV5) comparing it to say 52100? Thank you ALL
 
W2 is what I use when making myself a knife. Actually it's about the only steel I use beside damascus anymore.
 
Out of the steels on your list I would personally go with 52100. Any of the steels listed are a good choice though...

Reasons for picking 52100 - overall performance, availability in common sizes, it just happens to be affordable.
 
52100 is good stuff, but I get a little better performance from W2. Could be this particular batch of W2 though?
 
That gives me some ideas. It is probably true that it will be a close shave, so to speak, in a race with those steels. Thank you all!

Anybody here with O-7 experience? I have made myself a hunting knife from it. Used it this year on couple whitetails. Still crazy sharp.
 
I use 52100 for a fully hardened blade, and W2 if I want a hamon. Wear resistance is pretty much a toss up. For the guys who like to have a blade that is really easy to touch up, I use 15n20. I haven't used the O7, so I can't comment.
 
If you want a carbon steel with really good abrasion resistance that is not a PM steel and can be HT'ed at normal 1500F +- temps, pick up some Cru Forge V while you can. if you really don't like hand sanding for a LONG time, use W2, 52100 or even 1084 or O1. The other thing to remember about these steels is that you can increase the abrasion resistance by leaven them considerably harder than a lot of the manufacturers leave their plain carbons steels like 1095. Thank like as much as 5-6 points Rc harder!!!!! As far as what i have seen, all of these steels will support a thin, very sharp edge if heat treated properly
 
If forging, W2 is hard to beat for a keen edge with good, predictable results. If finish is an issue the W2 is a good choice. Elmax with its vanadium carbides is tough steel with great edge holding ability.

Isn't it a great time in history to be a working smith and have these choices and these great steels to work with. I read the history of 15th & 16th century Japan and am amazed at what they could do with what they had. What could they have accomplished with the steel choices we have. What do you think their steel of choice would have been.

Fred
 
Wow can't believe 1095 is not getting any love


Nothing wrong with 1095, but it's a pretty simple steel. It gets a very fine grain, but the W2 and 52100 will also, and have extra alloying elements that will give you 20-30% more wear resistance.
 
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