Your thoughts on Elmax steel?

Not overly impressed with the ELMAX in my 560. It's not bad, it just isn't noteworthy. It has already been to the ceramics twice with relatively little use.
I would have to say that I'm starting even to lean toward KAI's S30V over ELMAX for my usage, and I certainly like S35VN better.
 
KalEl said:
With an appropriate heat treat ELMAX is better than S30V in every aspect. Its much tougher, more stain resistant, easier to sharpen, and holds and edge longer. Its my favorite all around steel for folders and fixed blades at the moment. What I really love about it is how stain resistant it is along with its ability to resist damage. Its a really low maintanence steel that IMO really shines in harder use scenerios where edge damage can/ will occur. S30V will tend to chip where ELMAX will tend to roll and can be easily repaired on a ceramic stick.
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Where is your evidence that ELMAX will "hold an edge longer" than S30V? There is certainly no scientific evidence to back that up. I've tested ELMAX in 3 different blades now, and it has held an edge significantly poorer than S30V every time. Ankerson ranked it higher than S30V, but that's not really science based just as mine isn't.


There seems to be tons of anecdotal (and oft parroted) info which claims ELMAX as being "better than S30V in every way," with little to no real evidence to back that claim.
 
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KalEl said:
To my understanding at full hardness (62) ELMAX will beat S90V at a lower hardness, like 59 or 60 and will beat M4 at a hardness around 63. S90V at full hardness will spank ELMAX in edge retention and M4 should beat it as well but not by as big of a margin. But even with a full hardness heat treat on all 3 ELMAX will have the most corrosion resistance, be the easiest to sharpen, and will be much tougher than S90V but not as tough as M4.
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What? :confused:

60rc IS full hardness for S90V. The optimal range per Crucible is 54-58, and 60 is about as high as it goes. Where are you getting this info?

Also, ELMAX doesn't even come close to having the composition to beat S90V at edge retention, even if S90V was at low hardnesses. Wear resistance is the key part here, not hardness.
 
Hobo with a Rolex said:
I think the biggest problem with doing cut tests with the 560 is the thickness of the blade. You always end up with a wider angle on the 560 as opposed to something like the Para 2 with its thin blade. I don't think of the 560 as a great slicer, if you want a great slicer go for something like the Benchmade 746 with its super thin blade. The 560 was meant for hard use and is built to withstand lots of use/abuse. You are going to give up some slicing ability in order to get those attributes. No knife can do everything well, that is why they make all kinds of different ones for you to buy! And really, who doesn't want a "reason" to buy more knives?
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Not sure I understand the part in red. A 30 degree edge on the 0560 will be wider than a 30 degree angle on the Para 2? 30 degrees is 30 degrees. The thicker blade will most definitely force you to use more force in the cut, which in turn dulls the edge faster. Not sure if that's what you meant. :)
 
In my endeavors, I find that Elmax holds a razor's edge a bit longer than S30V. But, S30v seems to keep a working edge longer. No science to back it up, just what I have found. Other people's results may vary.
 
I have a Spyderco Mule in Elmax and one in Cruwear. With the factory edges, the Cruwear beat the Elmax hands down for edge retention. Having then sharpened them to 19 deg. The Elmax now spanks the Cruwear. Onci I've found the optimal angle for the Cruwear, I can then do a proper comparison test for edge holding. It's worthwhile playing around with the edge geometry before deciding that a steel is not for you.
 
With rare exceptions, no steel is "not for me." Almost all of them will get sharp enough to shave. Most of them will keep that razor edge for longer than just shaving the hair on my arms. Most of them again will maintain a razor-to-keen working edge for most tasks for plenty long enough. ALL of them will need to be re-sharpened eventually. I've come to the conclusion that until someone comes out with a real live "light saber," NO knife is worth buying purely for the steel used in it.
 
rockspyder said:
With rare exceptions, no steel is "not for me." Almost all of them will get sharp enough to shave. Most of them will keep that razor edge for longer than just shaving the hair on my arms. Most of them again will maintain a razor-to-keen working edge for most tasks for plenty long enough. ALL of them will need to be re-sharpened eventually. I've come to the conclusion that until someone comes out with a real live "light saber," NO knife is worth buying purely for the steel used in it.
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Ever used M4 at 64 or Sleipner at 61? May make you change your mind. Those are some amazing performers.
 
Can someone comment on the ease of sharpening of ELMAX vs M4 vs S90V? This is a factor for me to consider
 
I have used alot of knives in S30V and alot of knives in ELMAX and personally like ELMAX better.

S90V beats ELMAX all day every day by a huge margin in edge retention but If ELMAX is left at full hardness and S90V is on the softer side, ELMAX will most likey be a better performing steel.

And I have had a custom s90V knife at 61 and it was absolutely amazing and the edge retention was significantly better than the production S90V blades I've had that are run a little softer.

For s30v vs ELMAX I think HT is everything. If ELMAX is run soft, S30v will beat it. BUT if ELMAX is given a higher working hardness as in 61-62 it will out cut S30v at it's standard hardness of about 59-60 while also being tougher and more stainless.
 
I think it's important to remember that while cutting Manila rope is probably the beat way to "scientifically" measure edge retention it's not always an accurate reflection of how a knife will perform through a variety of mediums.

S30V may beat ELMAX in your tests but in real world usage the edge might chip out on you when you are making a feather stick and hit a knot, or when you have to cut through a hard material like micarta or something. Where I think ELMAX shines is in it's ability to resist damage. It's a fantastic steel for hard use knives that need stain resistance. S30V...not so much.
 
I own many ZT's and i can say Elmax blade of 0560 aren't so great. In my experience Spyderco S30V hold edge noticeable better.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Ever used M4 at 64 or Sleipner at 61? May make you change your mind. Those are some amazing performers.
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I've used CPM M4 from Benchmade, don't know what they run it at. It specifically was included in my consideration in my reply above. I have not used Sleipner all to the best of my knowledge.
 
chester22 said:
I believe S30v can be made sharper but ELMAX has better edge retention and strength.
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:thumbup:

Elmax has such a high rockwell that it can be pretty hard to sharpen yourself, but once it has that edge, it'll hold for a long time. S30V is going to be easier to sharpen yourself. Of course, we'll always do it for you if you have trouble with the Elmax.
 
Elmax is hard to compare to S30V because they don't perform the same. In my comparison to S30V Elmax greatly surpasses it in every direction and tends to remind me more of a carbon steel. Elmax also holds its working edge longer but also retains a high degree of sharpness for a greater length of time which IMO makes it a more user friendly steel and one to perform closer to personal expectations. Most knife users would rather have sharpness over a dull working edge.
 
rockspyder said:
With rare exceptions, no steel is "not for me." Almost all of them will get sharp enough to shave. Most of them will keep that razor edge for longer than just shaving the hair on my arms. Most of them again will maintain a razor-to-keen working edge for most tasks for plenty long enough. ALL of them will need to be re-sharpened eventually. I've come to the conclusion that until someone comes out with a real live "light saber," NO knife is worth buying purely for the steel used in it.
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Lots of truths here ,+1
 
The factory edge on my 561 came slightly toothy but sharp enough.I'm just guessing they went with Elmax for it's chip resistance quality?
 
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