Zdp-189

S

Seanski

Joined
Nov 20, 2007
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Was wondering about the new steel zdp-189? Have any of you had any experience with this steel? How does it perform and hold an edge? Was looking at a couple of Spyderco knives that use this steel and would appreciate any comments? Thank you.

Sean
 
it is not terribly new, but it is not used as often as other steels.

it is normally very hard, mid 60's on the rc scale.

performs and holds an edge extremely well. ive owned a few knives in zdp, but fortunately i have never had to do any sharpening other than light touch ups. i have read it can be very difficult to bring back or to change the grind.
 
I am quite fond of ZDP-189. It is some of the sharpest stuff I have EVER used.

I had a burgundy Caly 3 with a ZDP-189 blade, but it chipped with light use.

Now, I have a custom knife knife with ZDP-189, and that has NOT chipped with use at all.
 
Well it's not that new, I know it's been out for at least 4 or 5 years. It's only made in Japan and pretty expensive so you don't see a whole bunch of knives with it.

It operates best at a very high hardness so it's edge retention is excellent, but if you let it get dull it's going to make more work than normal to sharpen it. Even tho it's hardness is so high it seems to resist chipping which is impressive.

But like I said it is expensive and I prefer steels with a little lower hardness, for me they are just easier to work with, but that's a personal preference.
 
It is pretty great stuff. I like it almost (but not quite) as well as S90V. It can take a very thin edge angle and hold that edge for a very long time. In fact, I consider it total overkill for most people. Once you get used to the feel of it when you are sharpening, it isn't terribly difficult to put an edge on, but it is rather time consuming compared to softer steels.
 
It takes a LONG time to profile. It's a very hard steel and won't be easy for a beginner to sharpen without systems like the DMT Aligner or the Sharpmaker, etc. Touch-ups aren't so bad.

Over all, I think the edge retention is worth it. I will definitely look for this steel when considering knives.
 
Seanski said:
Was wondering about the new steel zdp-189? Have any of you had any experience with this steel? How does it perform and hold an edge? Was looking at a couple of Spyderco knives that use this steel and would appreciate any comments? Thank you.

Sean
Click to expand...

Best stainless so far:

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Results.html

I have no problem sharpening-reprofiling it, most likely because I use proper tool - DMT.
I have Yuna HardII and with heavy use - aluminum screen, exotic hard wood, roots in the sandy ground, drywall etc - it does not bend as soft steel, but rather chip, however it hold it much better then any other stainless.

And edge holding is only behing Dozier D2, but far better then any other stainless.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
tjsulli790 said:
Even tho it's hardness is so high it seems to resist chipping which is impressive.
Click to expand...

Any idea how this is done? I’ve heard it before but can hardly imagine a steel that is anywhere near that hard not being prone to chipping.
 
nozh2002 said:
it does not bend as soft steel, but rather chip, however it hold it much better then any other stainless.
Click to expand...

When you say it holds up better then other stainless are you talking about the bending/chipping issue or edge holding?

I suppose its personal preference as to which problem is easier to fix bending or chipping but I’d rather an edge bend and dent. Chips can be a pain to smooth out.
 
J.Mattson said:
When you say it holds up better then other stainless are you talking about the bending/chipping issue or edge holding?

I suppose its personal preference as to which problem is easier to fix bending or chipping but I’d rather an edge bend and dent. Chips can be a pain to smooth out.
Click to expand...

It will hold an edge longer. As a hard steel, ZDP is more likely to chip/crack than bend if it is forced, prying as an example.
 
I have a ZDP 189 delica I have been using for an EDC for close to a year. I haven't had to sharpen yet.

Compared to my VG 10 Delica, it holds an edge two to three times longer for the same amount of use.
 
J.Mattson said:
Any idea how this is done? I’ve heard it before but can hardly imagine a steel that is anywhere near that hard not being prone to chipping.
Click to expand...

It goes against what any steel of that hardness should do, yet I've read several tests in which after hard use it wouldn't chip. Some have experienced chipping, as T.K.C. mentioned. I thought the Japan factory producing ZDP189 was doing only inhouse heat treating (they've kept ZDP189 quite secretive), but that may be different now. If people are doing different heat treats on it and using it at different hardness levels that may be why some blades resist chipping and other do not.
 
J.Mattson said:
When you say it holds up better then other stainless are you talking about the bending/chipping issue or edge holding?

I suppose its personal preference as to which problem is easier to fix bending or chipping but I’d rather an edge bend and dent. Chips can be a pain to smooth out.
Click to expand...

It is not chips with normal or heavy use. But if you abuse it - it will not bend but chip. Now to have this you need more effort then with other steel, it will not chip very easy and when other steel will bend or chip it will not. So you will not have too much problem with it.

To me there is no difference in effort to fix damaged edge - is it bended or chipped. But with hard steel I will have to resharpen it way less often. With soft steel it is like after every use - I am not talking about chopping for fun, where edge sharpness does not matter - I am talking about small projects - like cutting paper (like 300 sheets of computer paper) or leather (1/4" thick cowhide), wood (wenge...).

However with ZDP I know for sure it will stand way better then other steel. Of course I have quite strond blade on my Yuna Hard II. It is not gentle cutter as a Spyderco Callipso with pretty thin profile.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
tjsulli790 said:
It goes against what any steel of that hardness should do, yet I've read several tests in which after hard use it wouldn't chip. Some have experienced chipping, as T.K.C. mentioned. I thought the Japan factory producing ZDP189 was doing only inhouse heat treating (they've kept ZDP189 quite secretive), but that may be different now. If people are doing different heat treats on it and using it at different hardness levels that may be why some blades resist chipping and other do not.
Click to expand...

It was never a case. I think this is matter of poor connection. Like I heart that W&H had to buy Japanese ZDP189 knives then regrind it and send back to Japan for heat treatment... Whyle friend of mine just bought me piece of ZDP189 and sent it here with instruction from supplier on how to heat treat it - same time as I heart this ridiculos story.

BTW - heat treatment is same as for ATS34 - best hardness 65HRC.

I think this is just some middle man was making some money with not to much effort, only because buyer did not search for other way to get it. This is where all this story about only indoor heat treatment and I also heart about not letting foreingers to buy it... After I post about me being able to get it without any problems, several custom makers bought ZDP 189 from Japan one way or another as well.

If you can speak Japanese you may order yourself.

http://www.hatta.co.jp/price.html

When I send them request in English they sugested me to learn Japanese first...

Regards, Vassili.
 
this delica was regrinded, and i gave it to a worker on construction sites
he used it for more than 6 months, he still does, on everything, from cutting cement bags to scrap dirt off metal, cut wires , and so on.
no gentle cutting, it was sharpened on cement blocks from time to time, and the edge is still quite good
IMG_2921_resize.jpg

IMG_2922_resize.jpg
 
I normally reprofile the edges on all knives I purchase to get a little more relief during my initial sharpening. I put off reprofiling/sharpening my ZDP Delica for a while because of the stories floating around about how hard it was to sharpen that particular steel. When I finally got around to it, it took very little time on the diamond stones to whip the blade into spooky sharpness.

I was sort of afraid I had gotten some kind of copy or forgery, because I was expecting a sharpening time more in line with D-2 (approximately forever). The knife is still super sharp, and I haven't found any mention of counterfeit ZDP Delicas on the Interweb so I'm fairly sure the knife is legitimate. I am definitely looking to pick up some other knives in this steel down the road.
 
It works better than any other steel I've used at holding very thin edges. I've taken zdp down to less than 8 degrees per side with a microbevel on the very edge and had superior cutting performance and no durability issues. Reprofiled a zdp endura into a scandi grind and the edge still held up to light chopping, batoning and cutting power cables. It performs exceptionally well in my experience and is above most stainless steels in edge holding. If you take your zdp really thin you'll have very good cutting ability and can reduce the time it takes to sharpen by utilizing a microbevel. I'd have to say I got my fully convexed zdp caly sharper than any other knife I own. This steel takes a ridiculous edge.

www.metalx.org/raum/Articles/e4comparison.html
 
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