ZOMBIES! No, really

Aye, 6 months ago I lived in Houston. I just made the choice to move 2200 miles to a state that understands my need to get outside on a regular basis.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Aye, 6 months ago I lived in Houston. I just made the choice to move 2200 miles to a state that understands my need to get outside on a regular basis.
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I would love to be able to move out of here, and perhaps someday I'll be able to do it, but right now, I'm stuck (I hope there are no disasters before I move). At the moment I have to stick pretty close to the big VA hospital here. Funding is also tight, but once I win the lottery, I'm out of here.
 
I live in a row of flats, basically 4 stories high with 2 apartments per floor per 'block' and in total this goes for a couple of hundred yards long. My thoughts are:

Barricade my door and give it a coupe of days to calm down. Then see what neighbors I have left. First I clear my block, this includes killing anyone I deem to be a possible threat to safety. (think the crazy woman in the remake of The Mist with Thomas Jane). Thoroughly barricade the ground floor communal entrances and exits. Connect flats with 'mouse holes' (small holes about 1 yard in diameter at floor level, like a giant dog flap) and then secure each one with a sturdy flap/door. Then systematically loot all usable items from every flat I can. Secure escape routes to the roof crawl space and down into safe houses created from flats i've re-enforced and stockpiled.

This would do me for at least the first month. I presume most sheeple to be dead or zombies by then. At this point I may look to further expand into tower blocks. As far as i'm aware zombies can't climb ropes so I could connect up through floors through holes like a fire pole but with rope instead.

Probably around the 6 month stage I would look to loot some bigger building with good arcs of fire that I could make a permanent base. I'll stop there as this is turning into an epic post I feel, that and it's probably revealing too much about my misused time spent thinking up this strategy.:D
 
Anybody seen "I am Legend"? Survival against such beasts wouldn't be so easy, huh?
 
CWL said:
Survival horror?

All you need is for 2 bad things to happen at the same time anywhere in the USA.

Since I live in CA, the easy scenario to discuss is a major earthquake that destroys power, transportation and communication. Something bad like that can take 1-3 months before FEMA & remaining State agencies can organize on a large enough scale to cover the entire State. Since CA is such a large place and has huge population centers, there will be a lot of starving city-dwellers fighting for scraps & meds before organized help can arrive in any scale.

Add to this, something like the Swine Flu, if it mutates, it can become much more deadly and communicable, particularly if humans are forced to congregate in tent cities and share common water & latrine facilities.

Infection, sickness, hunger and death, that is your zombie scenario.
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Thing is, CA is so big that no earthquake is going to devastatethe entire state. I don't think even a solid 9 could take out and devastate as much as 65% of the LA region. HUGE complex systems are...complex. That makes total, utter, 100% failure very hard to do.

It's 8 hours to my Mother in Law's house in the LA area from here, and she's not even in LA.

Which isn't to say you are wrong- a local calamity in SD, LA, Bakersfield, SF or SAC combined with a major infectious disease would devastate things and probably create a large semi-permanent no man's land in the region affected.

BUt I get phone calls every summer from friends asking if I am okay because there is a fire in calaveras, Santa Barbara, San Diego, or something. The scale of the state really needs some examining when talking about statewide disasters. Even the "LA commuter zone" is bigger than most New England states- and has SEVERAL different water and power subsystems. It's not all one lynchpin system.
 
dawsonbob said:
I would love to be able to move out of here, and perhaps someday I'll be able to do it, but right now, I'm stuck (I hope there are no disasters before I move). At the moment I have to stick pretty close to the big VA hospital here. Funding is also tight, but once I win the lottery, I'm out of here.
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single guy, no family, no job, why not? figured I better do it while I can. It costed me less to rent a moving truck, drive 2200 miles over five days while seeing a good chunk of what the west has to offer as far as hiking, and put deposit and first month's rent down on a place in Boise than it would have been to put a first month's rent and deposit down on a place in Houston. The VA hospital is 3 blocks away from me, I need it too. It's probably less busy here than it is in LA, this hospital is brand spankin new and only serves a 500k person area.
 
Thing is, CA is so big that no earthquake is going to devastatethe entire state. I don't think even a solid 9 could take out and devastate as much as 65% of the LA region. HUGE complex systems are...complex. That makes total, utter, 100% failure very hard to do.

It's 8 hours to my Mother in Law's house in the LA area from here, and she's not even in LA.

Which isn't to say you are wrong- a local calamity in SD, LA, Bakersfield, SF or SAC combined with a major infectious disease would devastate things and probably create a large semi-permanent no man's land in the region affected.

BUt I get phone calls every summer from friends asking if I am okay because there is a fire in calaveras, Santa Barbara, San Diego, or something. The scale of the state really needs some examining when talking about statewide disasters. Even the "LA commuter zone" is bigger than most New England states- and has SEVERAL different water and power subsystems. It's not all one lynchpin system.
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I'd rather you were right, but remember this? One failure at a power station knocked out power to 7 states:
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-08-11/news/mn-33345_1_backup-power

Seriously, America's infrastructure is old. Mostly from 1950s-1960s actually, with only band-aids holding most of it up. Add to that a calamity like "The Big One" earthquake that not only distrupts, but destroys our power grid. This in itself can destroy how So CA gets its water since it is pumped from out out state. -Or an earthquake is big enough to fill the LA basin or SF bay with seawater. -Anything like this will affect 10+ million.

Problem with "Americans" is that most cityfolk (I am a cityfolk) are weak and don't know how to survive without power, cellphones, computers, running water, -and civility can disappear fast if there is no sign of organized government providing food, water and shelter. Most Americans already have a "me first" and "right now" attitude, so the strongest are going to be taking from the weak in the fight for food, water and meds.

Then add disease.
 
I do remember that one, I had made it back CONUS by then- thing is, it is a good example of how a complex system doesn't just flat out fail. It wasn't a 100% 7 states blackout for extended periods of time- all news hype aside. It was largely intermittent in time and coverage area.

The power grid in particular is complex enough now that it would be very very difficult to create a really large scale long term (I mean, weeks, 2-48 hours) blackout.

Yeah, one major failure incident can ripple- it's the price of public utilities being run with personal profit being job #1. Monopolies suck. But the system overall is too complex to fail completely long term unless there's no one - and I mean no one- at work.

Flooding the LA basin would be.... interesting. It's not part of most earthquake models, though it's possible and probably that a really major quake would kill tens of thousands, in pure % terms, it's not like that is 50, or even 10% of the population. Even hitting 1% death rate would be scary (that's a couple HUNDRED thousand.)

SF Bay is already filled with seawater :D - I take your point, but the geography around here doesn't really support that. An earthwquake coule seriously damage the city or a surrounding area, but levelling and flooding everything from Coyote Creek to Geyserville and inland to Dublin and through the delta to Sac town would be.... well, THAT much damage (which includes sinking mountain ranges) would require an impact of the earth-shattering kaboom level form outer space. Seriously.

There *are* ways for really big disasters to occur, and the stacking effect of a major fatal illness outbreak and a large natural disaster would do it- but it would take really serious planning to force complex networked systems to fail that completely.

Even water- I am from North county, and spent par tof my childhood in AZ, and live in farm country in the central valley now- I'm familiar with the water issues. But while there's a lot made of the fact that most of the water for LA is imported, it's also true that it's wasted to a degree that's almost incalculable. To completely eradicate all of greater San Diego and LA water supplies would take very intentional wolrd-war level effort. Oh, life coule get VERY rough, VERY fast, but there is water around, and ways to transport and desalinate. (desalination on a 20 million gallon per day level would require something like a major military effort. Oddly, that's actually possible down there)

I'm not saying really BAD stuff can't happen, I just have my own particular analyses of how complex the systems are and how survivable random breakages of the networks are.

Some interesting reading in small worlds or network theory , Bucky Fuller (if you can decipher it), and social breakdown.
 
Just coat your body with Ozark Big-Eared Bat blood. It makes you invisible to zombies. Sheesh...you guys don't know that? :rolleyes:
 
Interesting discussion this thread is taking. In my mind,there really isn't much doubt that if you live in a big city situation you are essentially in a 'my life is a random statistic' in the SHTF situation. I'm not trying to say that to gloat it is just how I view it. Of course, there are many reasons why you might choose to live in the big city. Job stability, the theatre, you were born there. Nothing wrong with any of those reasons. If the SHTF doesn't come in your lifetime you've managed to cheat the odds and enjoy 1) better living standards, 2) better employment opportunities, 3) really class act stripper bars :D Ultimately, ones choice to live in a big city or the rural probably has very, very, very little to do about whether you think a SHTF scenario will occur.

On the other hand, this thread kind of provides the perspective about one of those advantages to living in a community where marrying your 2nd cousin is legitmate :D Okay, I'm being a little abrasive. I've had a few a drinks of really, really good liquor - no doubt created in a big city environment. My point in this post is that we have a pile of reasons for living where we live. I live in my place because of my job, which while this economy lasts, is treating me pretty good. I'm not up and up moving to the boonies because I think that is the better position in a chaotic society.

However, way down, way, way, way down....If you think like we freaks do.....Its gotta be the tiniest, tiniest consideration. Doesn't it?
 
kgd said:
Interesting discussion this thread is taking. In my mind,there really isn't much doubt that if you live in a big city situation you are essentially in a 'my life is a random statistic' in the SHTF situation. I'm not trying to say that to gloat it is just how I view it. Of course, there are many reasons why you might choose to live in the big city. Job stability, the theatre, you were born there. Nothing wrong with any of those reasons. If the SHTF doesn't come in your lifetime you've managed to cheat the odds and enjoy 1) better living standards, 2) better employment opportunities, 3) really class act stripper bars :D Ultimately, ones choice to live in a big city or the rural probably has very, very, very little to do about whether you think a SHTF scenario will occur.
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Well put, unfortunately:thumbup:. I remember one of the first threads I started, on this same subject, and how I came to conclusion that basically if SHTF, I'd be screwed while living in an urban center. Unless I got really lucky.

But I have to live in or near the big cities to get my career started, no choice really...or no choice that is appealing for a budding professional. I'm definitely moving out of the urban zone though, once I am able to establish myself :). And yes, SHTF would be a tiny, miniscule, consideration :D.
 
oh, I need my scotch.......

okay, now we can talk.


Thing is, there are secrets in the cities. I generally don't live DIRECTLY downtown, but when I have lived in cities I've always found secret byways and avenues. I do think that finding them and being willing and able to bugout early is important if it's a major major situation- if food and water are going to stop being delivered, or the protective camps are looking like they will turn 'permanent.' Or whatever.

I haven't done it in years, but I have sneak camped in San Diego city limits, in Houston, in the DC area- it's possible to find some alternate answers.


In some ways, where I live now is the worst- A nice 'small town' sort of feel, a university campus, major geographical separation from the Sacramento sprawl. But that makes it harder to decide to bug out, easier to go along with the baby steps of a tyranny, and it's somewhat more difficult to walk from "here to thar" unobstrusively through all the surrounding farmland.


In gun circles, the term goblin is used for attacking criminals. In this thread I'm really half jokingly using zombie as a term for a situation where you need to defend against a disaster that involves the mass of humanity or local animals becoming a threat.

While I think LA could, technologically, survive the loss of its water pipes from out of area, I think the sort of martial law decisions and forced labor and rationing necessary for this are unlikely to come about soon enough. (I could be wrong, we have a lot of very smart people in the military who - if left to it- would hook up some nukes and start distilling water at mass rates, with labor at gunpoint if needed). I think the delta region where I am could survive a plague outbreak gone pnuemonic and highly contagious (actual potential threat in the region)- again, technologically, maybe not practically. Practically is where it breaks down to cases- statistical variable (slave worker, gunned down for a quart of water. shot by a firing squad for flushing a toilet) or flee for freedom.
 
rksoon said:
Well put, unfortunately:thumbup:. I remember one of the first threads I started, on this same subject, and how I came to conclusion that basically if SHTF, I'd be screwed while living in an urban center. Unless I got really lucky.
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With VERY few exceptions, urban centers have waterways. at the very least, if you have a wet/dry suit and a floatable watersealed BOB setup, you can get out of dodge that way. Best case, you can row or motor out.

Rail lines never have steep grades and almost always have lots of brush to hid in nearby.

Levees and utility corridors to drive through once you break the gates of fencing.

'urban' trails sometimes go really interesting places if you follow photo topo maps instead of trail markers.



There's ways..... if you look hard enough and plan a few multiple routes early enough.
 
I had a drainage ditch behind my apartment complex in houston that had so much life in it... If I ran it through a filter 3 or 4 times i think i'd drink the water, and there were literally thousands of turtles which make good eating. lots of herons as well, and raccoons and possums were always around. Next to it a green path sheltered by trees followed a line of power lines all the way from galveston into downtown. There are places like you say in urban areas... its just that here in Boise I have big city and rural town all in one. It's ideal really for an outdoorsman that is trying to live a somewhat regular family and/or professional life.
 
If So. Cal lost the aqueduct system we'd be dry in short order, and there's a good chance that the remaining water would have serious water quality issues. In a major disaster one of the first thing's I'd do is collect all the water I could. I keep enough bleach on hand to disinfect what I need. Thirst is bad...and zombies only drink brain. ;)
 
Face it Christof - California is screwed. You have a good climate but too many people, not enough water and little if any sense :D. Flee north. You have a fighting chance in Washinton - perhaps ;) Water really is fleeing - at least in the context of your agriculatural draw.

Why do I like my little community with non-sensible people who are by and large blue-collar non-thinking workers? I'm really living in an industrial-dying city, supported by the the bankrupt big 3. Our unemployment is now 15%. From a current view economic situation - this is ground zero for disaster zone. This is Flint Michigan in the early 90's.

On the other hand what do we have? We have access to two Great Lakes via a couple of awesome conducting channels. You have to drain Lake Huron before we run out of water. Now I know you folks in Vegas and Ca have designs on that but it ain't going to happen :D The Great Lakes states are greedy buggers and if you want the water you'll have to pay Michigan and Ohio the big bucks! We have a pile of great quality agricultural lands, fertilized by the Great Lakes watershed. If our local community actually valued its agricultural resources it might actually do well. Perhaps even self sustaining outside of the faux oil-subsidized faux economy we enjoy today.

Maybe, perhaps maybe this little community will grow up. Maybe, it will take advantage of the natural riches it has in its own backyard. I'm banking it does. Even at the sacrifice of staying in a community that under current 'status quo' has little to offer.
 
koyote said:
There's ways..... if you look hard enough and plan a few multiple routes early enough.
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Good food for thought Christof :thumbup:. This is good, got me in the gear to reevaluate my surroundings and try to explore my options.
 
I'm going to start threatening to make a "how to survive in CA thread".


Ken- I live so far from LA that I don't think many people could *survive* the trek north. The idiots to the east of me in the sacramento sprawl are wasitng water like you couldn't belive, but we have 3 major rivers and several strong creeks feeding the area- I'm within a few miles of the stockton, sacramento, and american rivers. Then the feather river is just up north and feeds a lot of our rice production.

i live in a different CA from down south. We grow enough food for far more than the CA population, right here int he valley. And without stealing all the water from AZ or NV. :D

I dunno if we're screwed. Most of us in northern CA feel like it, because of the political decisions of the southerners and the Bay. BUt if you have a healthy disregard for the laws and don't have a lot of local sheriffs who have power trips, you can get by..... just.... get by.

Washington s on my list, so is northern AZ and MT, ID, and even WY.
 
Most of Northern CA isn't hurting that bad for water. The big issue is the imported water heading South. So when we're talking CA water shortages, it really means Southern CA.
 
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