ZT 0560 issue please help

[PURPLEDC]

Thank you for all the responses. I have to say I am totally disappointed with this knife. I am NOT a newbie to high end folders. I saw that whole BS explanation from KAI that the thumb studs aren't thumb studs. So on all the other similar models they are thumb studs but on this model they aren't? I'm pretty sure they were intended as thumb studs as well as stops but after people complained, they decided to rename them. I'm sure most of you that say yours is possible to open with the studs are correct but believe me when I tell you mine is IMPOSSIBLE with the right hand holding stud. I can be holding the handles in my left hand with no pressure whatsoever and it will still not open.

As for the flipper with the jimping, sure I can find a way to flip it without cheese grating my finger but why should I need to? That jimping just shouldn't be there like that. It's a horrible design. If I wanted a folder that required skill and practice to learn to open safely, I would get a bali-song. If I want a nice flipper, I don't expect to have to learn how to use it.

In summary I think this is a terrible design with inherent flaws. I can't understand why they would change anything from the 550 model other than maybe size, flipper, and steel. That's really all they needed to do if they wanted another model. That's all I thought they changed with the models. But no.

Look at a strider SMF or SNG. See the giant blade stop? Its where they got the concept. It started in the 0300. On the striders its not a thumbstud either. Thats why it has a giant hole in the blade to open it up. The ONLY reason people even used them as a thumb stud on the older ZT models is because they didnt have much of a detent with the speed safe mech. Believe what you want, but flippers perform better with heavier detents. And sometimes there is a learning curve with new technology. And the 550 and 0560 where NEVER toted as being the same knife. Dont really know where you got that from. I simply dont feel its fair for you to label it a poor design. As there are many many satisfied customers who feel the exact opposite. I think the better way to look at it is that its just not the knife for you. And maybe its time for you should get into knife design if your so convinced of your opinions on how it should be done. Im not saying that to be a jerk, but their are many who come to the forums and say they dont like this or that about a knife and start attacking it. Not one of them have ever designed a knife though. Never once do they think that maybe it wasnt designed with them in mind. And just because it wasnt doesnt make it bad. Its just not what you would prefer. If they were to smooth the jimping you would have TNP'rs screaming about it. You weaken the detent then I would be screaming about it. Make the thumbstuds a true thumbstud and people would wonder why you even need it on a flipper. Its like getting mad at microtech because you cant open their OTF like as a side opener.

Your response is silly. First you say to look at the position of them. Then you compare them to a knife that has them positioned differently. On the 560 there is plenty of room for your thumb. So what exactly is your point?

On the 0560 there is plenty of room for you to get your finger in the way of the blade when your closing it. It doesnt mean they designed it with the purpose of cutting your fingers off.

Your response is silly. First you say to look at the position of them. Then you compare them to a knife that has them positioned differently. On the 560 there is plenty of room for your thumb. So what exactly is your point?

They are actually both positioned exactly the same. So that when they open they stop the blade.

 

[sticktodrum]

In an odd turn of events, it seems that I agree completely with PURPLEDC up there, as it's one of the most thorough and comprehensive responses to angry spoutings from the OP. To the OP, you should take up your qualms of inherently flawed design with Rick Hinderer, considering it was designed by him. Not that it means anything, it's not as if he's a renowned and popular designer... You could probably school him and the thousands of other 0560 owners who aren't having the spastic troubles you seem to be running into.

I find it a bit silly myself, however, that you assert that you're no stranger to high end folders, yet your initial post showed some ignorance of the workings and parts that are in a relatively affordable "high end folder" like the 0560.

I will however continue to argue against the official word from ZT that the studs on the 0560 are merely stops (or primarily stops) on account of they following the XM-18 design which offers identical models with and without flippers at which point those studs are indeed thumb deployment studs. Either way, I have partiality towards thumb stud deployment. That being said, it's irresponsible to assume that your own lack of expertise in deploying a particular design amounts to flaws in the design itself.

If you're willing to settle down and learn, here are some tips I've come up with for thumb stud and flipper deployment on the 0560 and other knives:

[video=youtube;81MlIACmh_M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81MlIACmh_M[/video]

[video=youtube;VrwKNhUYUVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrwKNhUYUVo[/video]

 

[northend816]

For real tho what makes u think u know more about the knife than the designer and company making it???? or are u so full of urself that u cant admit u made mistake and dont know everything??

 

[JuJu-]

For real tho what makes u think u know more about the knife than the designer and company making it???? or are u so full of urself that u cant admit u made mistake and dont know everything??

Lets keep the knife and questions relevant, we don't need to attack each other here.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I will however continue to argue against the official word from ZT that the studs on the 0560 are merely stops (or primarily stops) on account of they following the XM-18 design which offers identical models with and without flippers at which point those studs are indeed thumb deployment studs.

While I agree with almost everything you said I think one thing bears mentioning. And that is while the 056X series of knives is a hinderer design, and borrows heavily from his own XM models there are differences in which I feel justify the claims made by zt. The actual hinderer lacks bearings. And it also lacks a heavy detent as to allow the use of the thumbstuds. Kai seemed to go into a different direction. They chose a heavy detent to ensure you get the best performance from the KVT. This of course would sacrifice the effectiveness of the stop pins from being able to be used as thumb studs. Who knows though, maybe it was supposed to be set up for both and they accidentally made the detent way too strong. But if thats the case I wonder why they chose to keep a strong detent? They could have found a balance. I know myself I prefer flipper only, especially with a bearing pivot. The one thing I wouldnt do is tell Kai they improperly designed a knife because its not exactly what I had in mind. That even I find silly. Glad to see me and you saw eye to eye on something, lol.

 

[Hummeroid]

I have a fix for your detent and rattle. Pm me for anything else.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1065709

560 Detent Tuning

 

[ranger1983]

People get really sensitive over other peoples opinions of knives and their design, almost like their publicly dissing their mother. Do these knife manufacturers/makers buy y'all groceries every week or something? If a man wants to express his dislike of a knife and/or its design, who gives a flip. It's a knife...one amongst many....and it certainly doesn't put money under my pillow at night.

 

[sticktodrum]

While I agree with almost everything you said I think one thing bears mentioning. And that is while the 056X series of knives is a hinderer design, and borrows heavily from his own XM models there are differences in which I feel justify the claims made by zt. The actual hinderer lacks bearings. And it also lacks a heavy detent as to allow the use of the thumbstuds. Kai seemed to go into a different direction. They chose a heavy detent to ensure you get the best performance from the KVT. This of course would sacrifice the effectiveness of the stop pins from being able to be used as thumb studs. Who knows though, maybe it was supposed to be set up for both and they accidentally made the detent way too strong. But if thats the case I wonder why they chose to keep a strong detent? They could have found a balance. I know myself I prefer flipper only, especially with a bearing pivot. The one thing I wouldnt do is tell Kai they improperly designed a knife because its not exactly what I had in mind. That even I find silly. Glad to see me and you saw eye to eye on something, lol.

I'm not so sure about that. The detent across the four 0560CBCFs that I've handled were all much less robust than the standard 0560s I've come across. I figure the position of the cutout has something to do with it, as well as just their tuning of the lock. The pictures posted of the 0560BLK show a similar lock bar.

I think that while the strong detent is conducive to the flipper deployment being primary, it looks like they're making accommodations for either method. I also still argue for the studs not only on the basis of the the XM origin, but also the placement of the studs and their accessibility (as they are on the XM).

Yeah, it's odd yet positive that we agree here, but I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about.

 

[JuJu-]

People get really sensitive over other peoples opinions of knives and their design, almost like their publicly dissing their mother. Do these knife manufacturers/makers buy y'all groceries every week or something? If a man wants to express his dislike of a knife and/or its design, who gives a flip. It's a knife...one amongst many....and it certainly doesn't put money under my pillow at night.

Please see post # 24. Thanks.


Stick the detent on the one I handled was about the same maybe a touch lighter than the 0561 with a lower serial # I just sold . They both flipped great. Never tried to deploy with thumb studs though.

 

[ranger1983]

Please see post # 24. Thanks.


Stick the detent on the one I handled was about the same maybe a touch lighter than the 0561 with a lower serial # I just sold . They both flipped great. Never tried to deploy with thumb studs though.

I read #24...my post was relevant and was not an attack. Thanks.

My 0560 had a strong detent...it also developed lock rock.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Maybe its just me, but i don’t see the point of going through all the trouble to bash a knifes design. If you really think its “a terrible design with inherent flaws”, what’s the point of keeping it?
I know if I was this dissatisfied with a knife design, i’d sell/trade it, and move on. Perhaps that might be the better route than sitting here debating just for the heck of it.

You are right. Nobody on BF should ever point out flaws they find in any knife they buy. Just sell them and move on. Please everyone from now on don't mention anything you find to be faulty. We only want to hear the good stuff.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

All the KAI fanboys on here are funny. I have owned at least 10 different Kershaw blades and 3 ZT blades. I loved every one of them except this one. Does it mean I hate Kershaw? No. I know they have (almost) the best customer service out there. I am a pretty big purchaser of Busse and kin knives. Does that mean I love everything they do? Not at all.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

So here we go. In my opinion, the gimping is in the perfect place, and provides a great grip. Since we’re talking about design... the ZT line of knives are developed and designed for hard use. Most people who use their knives for long periods of time wear gloves. So they wouldn’t have a problem with the gimping. The intent of these knives being made is to be used as cutting tools. They weren’t made to be flipped open and closed for hours on end... so they probably didn’t think of the gimping being “too sharp”.

Again, this is all my opinion... so take it how you want. However, it might be considerate to think about what the knife was intended to be used for, before making a point to prove to everyone how the design is flawed.

Yeah I guess I overlooked the fact that this knife is designed to be used while wearing gloves. I usually wear gloves while using a folder.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

So after reading this thread and editing many many posts lol i have come to understand some people( or 1) believe ZT( top knife company) is lying about how they made there own knife....and the good men and women on BF who have taken time to help by posting the info they have are lying as well!!!! its one be cover up than right!!!! LOL i mean WOW...WOW!!! SMH

Top knife company? I think you should edit that to ONE of the top PRODUCTION knife companies.
I don't think people are lying. Just excusing. Cover up? Nah this isn't politics. LOL WOW WOW SMH?!?! Someone is dramatic.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

They are actually both positioned exactly the same. So that when they open they stop the blade.

With the exception being the skyline has no room for your thumb.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

In an odd turn of events, it seems that I agree completely with PURPLEDC up there, as it's one of the most thorough and comprehensive responses to angry spoutings from the OP. To the OP, you should take up your qualms of inherently flawed design with Rick Hinderer, considering it was designed by him. Not that it means anything, it's not as if he's a renowned and popular designer... You could probably school him and the thousands of other 0560 owners who aren't having the spastic troubles you seem to be running into.

I find it a bit silly myself, however, that you assert that you're no stranger to high end folders, yet your initial post showed some ignorance of the workings and parts that are in a relatively affordable "high end folder" like the 0560.

I think some of you assume too much. Sure maybe I assumed that all of the 560s are as bad as mine since it doesn't look like there is much wrong with it. But you assume there is nothing wrong with mine. My main beef wasn't even with the thumb studs. I pointed them out to show how difficult it is to open at all. I owned a 3rd gen hinderer and it was nothing like this. I have also owned a few other flippers that were nothing like this. If some of you weren't so quick to assume user error maybe this would have been a better discussion. I will send it in to ZT since it seems others don't have the same extreme detent that mine does. I want you all to go grab your 560s and see if you can possibly open yours with "thumb studs". If so, your's is not like mine. That will give you a clue as to how hard it is to even open with the flipper. There is no way to get any wrist assistance with the flipper because I have to press down so hard.

 

[seelow123]

Yeah I guess I overlooked the fact that this knife is designed to be used while wearing gloves. I usually wear gloves while using a folder.

Does it say that the knife was designed for use with gloves on? I'm not calling you out or anything, merely curious.

 

[Blade Runner 7]

Does it say that the knife was designed for use with gloves on? I'm not calling you out or anything, merely curious.

No. And that was my point. He was trying to say these are hard use knives so most people will be wearing gloves while used them. His argument was invalid.

 

[stebolicious]

You are right. Nobody on BF should ever point out flaws they find in any knife they buy. Just sell them and move on. Please everyone from now on don't mention anything you find to be faulty. We only want to hear the good stuff.

You might actually be on to something there. :thumbup:

Yeah I guess I overlooked the fact that this knife is designed to be used while wearing gloves. I usually wear gloves while using a folder.

Well, with that being said, whats the point of this thread?


I guess there’s always little things that bug me with each new knife that I buy. Instead of making a thread complaining about it, i carry it for 3-4 weeks with extensive use to see if that changes. 9 times out of 10, the little things that bugged me in the beginning, are now things i love the most about the knife.

I’ll be honest, when i first got my 0561, the gimping on the top was a little aggressive and the action was a little gritty. I took the knife apart, cleaned it, added a little oil to the bearings, and re-assembled. Its now the smoothest production knife i own. Also, while it was apart, i took a very high grit sand paper and ever so slightly knocked off a fraction of a millimeter.

I totally respect your right to express your opinions on the forums whether they are positive or negative. However, when you make a thread thats negative, and respond to all of the responses with a negative demeanor, wouldn’t you expect to get a few people fired up?

 

[seelow123]

I totally respect your right to express your opinions on the forums whether they are positive or negative. However, when you make a thread thats negative, and respond to all of the responses with a negative demeanor, wouldn’t you expect to get a few people fired up?

This +1. It can seem like some people may attack you when you voice a negative opinion about something but it only gets worse when you're nothing but negative about it.