ZT 0561 or Southard or ?

anthony cheeseboro said:
I was at Grand Prairie Knives today and I finally got to compare a Southard and a 561. The Southard is really nice, I mean really nice, but that 561 is something special! If I spend big money on a knife this year, it will be a ZT 561 for sure!
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I plan on making a trip over to GPK as soon as my wallet recovers...... just to browse, of course. ;)
 
I have both a Southard and a PM2 and, in my opinion, the F&F of the Southard is a level above the PM2. Of course there is a price difference between them since I have just the regular DLC S30V PM2.


myemptymind said:
I just purchased a Southard, I own a ZT 560 & I love it. Hopefully the Southard will meet my expectations. Cant see why it wouldnt. Spyderco is an awesome company, if the Southard's build quality is similar to that of the PM2 then I will be more than satisfied. Love the PM2!!
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jill jackson said:
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Looks to me like the Southard would be comparable to the Gayle Bradley size-wise. I appreciate the locking mechanism difference, scale material difference, etc. but in application they look to be similar. Anyone got both and care to share opinions/comparisons?

Not trying to hijack the thread - just interested...

Thanks!

Ben
 
cncpro11 said:
I know, right?
So many similarities between the two.
I can't imagine how Spyderco justif) ies the price.
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Do your research man, blind assumptions make you look really ignorant. Taiwan isn't China, and the maker spyderco uses in Thaichung was chosen because they are incredible knife makers with an absurd attention to detail, not because they're cheap. That's fine if you prefer American made knives, I do as well, but there's a reason the Southard costs what it does. The Southard would likely cost close to $400 if it were produced in the USA. Get your hands on one for even 1 minute and that fact will be extremely apparent. The Southard is an absolutely world class knife no matter how you look at it. It's one thing to be a patriot, but some of you act like nothing expensive can be produced over seas.

Besides, I fail to see how a Japanese company (KAI, parent company of ZT and Kershaw), using European steel (ELMAX), manufacturing a knife in the USA does anything more for American jobs than an American company (Spyderco), using an American made steel (CTS-204P) manufacturing a knife over seas.
 
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mkjellgren said:
Do your research man, blind assumptions make you look really ignorant. Taiwan isn't China, and the maker spyderco uses in Thaichung was chosen because they are incredible knife makers with an absurd attention to detail, not because they're cheap. That's fine if you prefer American made knives, I do as well, but there's a reason the Southard costs what it does. The Southard would likely cost close to $400 if it were produced in the USA. Get your hands on one for even 1 minute and that fact will be extremely apparent. The Southard is an absolutely world class knife no matter how you look at it. It's one thing to be a patriot, but some of you act like nothing expensive can be produced over seas.

Besides, I fail to see how a Japanese company (KAI, parent company of ZT and Kershaw), using European steel (ELMAX), manufacturing a knife in the USA does anything more for American jobs than an American company (Spyderco), using an American made steel (CTS-204P) manufacturing a knife over seas.
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What processes exactly? Or is it just material cost? Because for $150 Benchmade made the Shoki 480-1 w/ carbon fiber, M390, titanium liners, USA made.
So please explain the processes used, and how labor extensive or "expensive" these processes are to do.

For example I can say what features exactly cost money building a ZT 561.
1. USA made
2. 3D CNC machined G10 scale, and framelock. (seems Southard's are just cut via CNC).
3. Wire cut framelock for a nice gapless appearance.
4. Carbidized lockbar face (not terribly expensive but it is extra labor and needs to be done by hand since I know no machine that can do it automatically).
5. Pocketed framelock (additional CNCing), and skeletonized stainless steel liner.
6. Framelock's are polished before stonewashing. The Southard's are not. (Stonewashing is inexpensive anyways, I personally don't consider it much of a cost).
7. Same heat treatment, and powder steel technology as the CTP-204P
8. 3D applied logo's and text. (aesthetically more pleasing).
9. Powder coated hardware (Screws and females/spacers/pivot).

Let's not forget the heavy USA based-investment that ZT had to make to experiment in the machining to create the contoured cnc'ed handles, finishing, carbidizing, polishing pre-stonewash, and fitting of the knives using more expensive USA based labor.

I think the call for Spyderco to move it to Taiwan is one that others have mentioned. Spyderco isn't a tremendously large company so investing money for ONE knife right now to create the same fit and finish as can be done in Taiwan isn't something of a wise business decision. Kershaw can do this however.

First of to make things clear: I really don't care where a knife is made, but some of the comments made by mkjellgren seem to reek of opinion presented as "facts" with no real content or details just hearsay.
Kershaw is an American founded company which is still HQ'ed in the USA, while Kershaw isn't a USA made only manufacture ZT is indeed an American based operation.
What Group a company belongs to is irrelevant.
For one the American steel company making the steel for the Southard is not dependent on the Southard to survive. Meaning the Southard used M390, the steel company would run around fine and would still produce the steel for industry usage.
In other words: The southard does not create American jobs directly.
The southard however is a product that is sent off shore where it did DIRECTLY create a demand for labor at it's most basic level. (Don't forget import taxes, duties, and other factors).


The ZT 561 despite having european knife steel (elmax), it still created a demand for labor here in America that may have not been present had the knife not been made. (Less hours, less machining needed, etc)
 
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my southard should be here tomorrow I have owned about 3 560s and a 561 and they all had some kinda defect maybe a small defect but something was wrong with all of them. It turned me against the 56x line and I will never own another one , I love the zt 0300 and the 550, don't get me wrong, but the 56x's just weren't for me and I love big knives , I hope the southard lives up to all the hype as mine will be in my hand tomorrow. or today when the mail runs .
 
lol that made in the U.S.A. mess is a bunch of bull, if you have owned a spyderco made in taichung you would know that they are some of the best knives you can buy, my gayle bradley has the best fit and finish of any knife i own. Hopefully the southard is the same , I will report when it's in the hand. FWIW Taichung spyderco's are usually better than Us made spydercos.
 
Allen R. said:
my southard should be here tomorrow I have owned about 3 560s and a 561 and they all had some kinda defect maybe a small defect but something was wrong with all of them. It turned me against the 56x line and I will never own another one , I love the zt 0300 and the 550, don't get me wrong, but the 56x's just weren't for me and I love big knives , I hope the southard lives up to all the hype as mine will be in my hand tomorrow. or today when the mail runs .
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All knives I've owned have had one issue or another.

My ZT 561 so far has been good after sending it in to Kershaw (except for the fact I am may need reprofile the blade again).

I don't think anyone here doubts Taichung's manufacturing. I think the price is a concern.
Just a couple of comments made about how one is USA made while the other is not.
 
mkjellgren said:
Do your research man, blind assumptions make you look really ignorant. Taiwan isn't China, and the maker spyderco uses in Thaichung was chosen because they are incredible knife makers with an absurd attention to detail, not because they're cheap. That's fine if you prefer American made knives, I do as well, but there's a reason the Southard costs what it does. The Southard would likely cost close to $400 if it were produced in the USA. Get your hands on one for even 1 minute and that fact will be extremely apparent. The Southard is an absolutely world class knife no matter how you look at it. It's one thing to be a patriot, but some of you act like nothing expensive can be produced over seas.

Besides, I fail to see how a Japanese company (KAI, parent company of ZT and Kershaw), using European steel (ELMAX), manufacturing a knife in the USA does anything more for American jobs than an American company (Spyderco), using an American made steel (CTS-204P) manufacturing a knife over seas.
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I never blindly assumed anything, and I never even mentioned China. I didn't see anywhere that said the Southard is a limited edition, or a sprint run, or even a semi custom.
That leads me to believe it is a production knife made in a country other than U. S., which most companies tend to sell at a lower price.

I know that Taiwan produces some very fine products, but always at a lower price when compared to similar products. And that is the point I made.

I own a Giant road bike, it has an aluminum frame, carbon fiber forks, and the same shimano derailleures, crankset, and brakes as a Specialized road bike, but cost $1000 less.
 
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cncpro11 said:
I never blindly assumed anything, and I never even mentioned China. I didn't see anywhere that said the Southard is a limited edition, or a sprint run, or even a semi custom.
That leads me to believe it is a production knife made in a country other than U. S., which most companies tend to sell at a lower price.

I know that Taiwan produces some very fine products, but always at a lower price when compared to similar products. And that is the point I made.

I own a Giant road bike, it has an aluminum frame, carbon fiber forks, and the same shimano derailleures, crankset, and brakes as a Specialized road bike, but cost $1000 less.
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So Specialized doesn't make bikes in the USA.
 
themudking25 said:
IMO the 0560/1 is a bit chunky and dose not carry well in jeans.
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I carry my 0560 a lot, especially in jeans. For me it carries well, and I actually forget it is in my pocket. For its size the 0560/1 is pretty light. I have to admit the Southard does look interesting, and I'd like to check one out in person. As indicated previously, ZT is also coming out with a smaller version of the 0560/1 in the 0566 which will have a 3.25 inch blade, so more carry friendly for some.
 
jill jackson said:
So Specialized doesn't make bikes in the USA.
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Specialized Bicycles, founded in 1974 by Mike Sinyard and based in Morgan Hill, CA.

They have about 300 employees and still make bicycles here.

Giant is Taiwanese and actually based in the same city as where the Southard is produced.
 
I just got my 0561 in and its great for edc its probly a lil over the top i wish it didnt take up quite as much pocket space but im getting used to it that being said i dont have a southard but plan on getting 1 very soon to compare.
Oh and if you get the 0560/1 you can always order blems through kershaw guy my 0561 was 175$ for a blem but came without the 4small xs and the knife is perfect so I can def recommend him
 
cncpro11 said:
Specialized Bicycles, founded in 1974 by Mike Sinyard and based in Morgan Hill, CA.

They have about 300 employees and still make bicycles here.

Giant is Taiwanese and actually based in the same city as where the Southard is produced.
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Most Specialized bikes are from Taiwan. I have one nearly as old as me made there.
 
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