ZT 0561 or Southard or ?

Im still waiting for a response to manufacturing of the Southard and why it's $260~ when a USA knife can be had with similar features, and same fit and finish.
 
What's wrong with the Southard being $260? I think you may have answered your question already. Spyderco being a smaller company, may only be able to handle a certain amount of production here.
 
gooeytek said:
What's wrong with the Southard being $260? I think you may have answered your question already. Spyderco being a smaller company, may only be able to handle a certain amount of production here.
Click to expand...

Nothing is wrong with that, just wondering what the last comment I quoted earlier was thinking trying to justify the Southard's price by comparing it to the Zt561 which in my opinion involves higher manufacturing costs by far. Making excuses without saying much.

And you hit the nail on the head pretty much, I honestly think that is the reason the Southard is $260 and not cheaper. It isn't manufacturing expense, fit and finish, or difficulty making the knife but a simpler explanation: Spyderco is a small company. Spyderco simply cannot afford to mass produce it in the numbers benchmade, or kershaw can.
 
Luis G. said:
Im still waiting for a response to manufacturing of the Southard and why it's $260~ when a USA knife can be had with similar features, and same fit and finish.
Click to expand...

The issue is that the fit amd finish is not the same. I own both knives, and both are nice knives, but the southard is nicer. Sal of spyderco has said in the past that if he wanted to make knives that matched chris reeve's tolerances they would cost as much as chris reeve's knives, well, this one does match (or nearly) those tolerances, and because its produced in taiwan it costs $240, not $400. Again, some of you act as though expensive things cant be produced overseas. Its becoming painfully obvious that the majority of the haters are either die hard patriots who are all bent out of shape by a foreign produced knife getting so much praise, or are simply people who have not yet handled the knife. I have yet to hear a single person who has owned the knife say "yeah...it just wasnt worth it...". Get one in your hands and you'll see what the fuss is about. This $240 taiwanese knife isnt just in par with a $240 american knife, its on par with (and better than some) a $400 american knife. If youre going to break down cost so simply as you claim to have done with the zt, how do you explain the $400+ cost of a plain stonewashed lego strider, which arguably has worse fit and finish.

Edit: youre exactly right that the size of the company matters.
 
Last edited:
mkjellgren said:
The issue is that the fit amd finish is not the same. I own both knives, and both are nice knives, but the southard is nicer. Sal of spyderco has said in the past that if he wanted to make knives that matched chris reeve's tolerances they would cost as much as chris reeve's knives, well, this one does match (or nearly) those tolerances, and because its produced in taiwan it costs $240, not $400. Again, some of you act as though expensive things cant be produced overseas. Its becoming painfully obvious that the majority of the haters are either die hard patriots who are all bent out of shape by a foreign produced knife getting so much praise, or are simply people who have not yet handled the knife. I have yet to hear a single person who has owned the knife say "yeah...it just wasnt worth it...". Get one in your hands and you'll see what the fuss is about. This $240 taiwanese knife isnt just in par with a $240 american knife, its on par with (and better than some) a $400 american knife. If youre going to break down cost so simply as you claim to have done with the zt, how do you explain the $400+ cost of a plain stonewashed lego strider, which arguably has worse fit and finish.
Click to expand...

Really don't care for origin of manufacture. At all.
You are:
A) Talking to some one who has bought nearly $2,500 in Chinese-made swords when I collected them. And about $200 in Taiwan made knives.
B) Spent nearly $800 in watch materials, and movements including buying vintage Chinese watches. Another $400 in Chinese-made watches from Seagull.
C) Someone using a Chinese-made Taiwan founded Thinkpad.
D) Is currently using foreign made clothes.
E) Wear foreign made watches (owned several).

Please do not try to picture me as a Patriot. I follow quality. If that happens to be in Taiwan, so be it. If it's in the USA so be it.
Do I like buying US made products, sure but if they're crap. Im not buying.

BUT I am also a realist. American manufacturing is expensive. I understand foreign manufacturing is cheaper in lower income countries. I would like to see price differences if possible. (In the Southard's case it is not possible as it is a small company achieving a huge product in low quantities).

Well for one, I returned my Southard to vendor. I preferred the action on my ZT561 and to be perfectly honest as shallow as it sounds I couldn't get over the disproportionate handle thicknesses.
Fit and finish is the same, not sure what you are talking about. At least on my ZT561 vs the Southard I bought. The southard definitely didn't have the same tolerances as my large sebbie 21. That is for sure. When I removed the pivot on my southard, it was very loose. While my Sebbie remained fairly solid with almost no play at all.

Absolutely, CRK charges fair prices all the way in my educated guess. They do a lot of work to those knives. The surface grinding they do, the polishing, fit and finish, inlaying, etc is all top notch stuff.

What does Strider have to do with this conversation or a ZT 561 for that matter?
 
Luis G. said:
Really don't care for origin of manufacture. At all.
When I removed the pivot on my southard, it was very loose. While my Sebbie remained fairly solid with almost no play at all.
Click to expand...

I have to admit to possibly being slow-witted, but how is this test a measure of anything? You pulled the pivot out of a flipper knife and the blade was loose? Er, what?

All of these knives are very nice. There is no sense in measuring their manufacturing cost, as those costs are not only not exposed to us, but have little relationship to the price of luxury products like these anyway.
 
The ZT would be better for my tastes the ZT feels great in the hand, nice and thick it feels tough and I held the Southard at one of my knife stores and it was ok and built great but I felt it was to light and and not big enough.
 
A lot of people like the small handle with a larger blade. It makes it easier to pocket, yet still you have the blade length when opened. So, from what I've read it's a selling point.
 
evilgreg said:
I have to admit to possibly being slow-witted, but how is this test a measure of anything? You pulled the pivot out of a flipper knife and the blade was loose? Er, what?

All of these knives are very nice. There is no sense in measuring their manufacturing cost, as those costs are not only not exposed to us, but have little relationship to the price of luxury products like these anyway.
Click to expand...

If you remove the pivot and the knife remains solid with no play it means:
The tolerance in manufacturing are tight in these areas:
-Each of the stand offs (spacing between the two scales) are of equal thickness.
-Blade thickness, and thickness of washers is exact exactly the same as the stand off, and distance between scale surfaces.
-The surface of the titanium scales are ground to near-perfect flat sides.
-The screws are there to make sure the scale doesn't pop off, not to press the scales into the proper distance as other knives.
-The titanium lock bar mating with the angled blade tang is fitted well.
Many of these processes must use a surface grinder working very slowly and taking a long time. A CNC even a Machino's CNC cannot reach these tolerances.

I would strongly recommend picking up "The Exquisite blade: the legend of chris reeves knives". It shows you exactly what they mean by Sebbies having tight tolerances.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top