ZT 0566 - Now: Flipperless, CF scale, drilled & lightened, improved pivot, & more

[blairtech]

Great work! I love this knife just don't like the weight and think it could be smoother. Looks like you just helped me solve those issues.

I think a few now are catching on that the bigger better washer idea makes for a smoother, sturdier knife; and that it resolves the binding issues that about half the people seem to have with this marginal design. Now, the counter-boring and lightening that Ron and I have done, is a cool improvement, and more in line I think with an EDC knife of this size, but it IS quite a bit of work, and I can only recommend this labor of love if you have pretty good machining skills, mechanical skills, and pretty good tools and cutters too. I just want a disclaimer, because I sure don't want anybody messing anything up because of me! (IF, 'for instance'... you don't have good-quality, very sharp drill bits, and you apply a little too much pressure drilling the liner, you MAY wind up with a slight bend in your liner, which you have to correct as I did with creative clamping in a vise... No biggie, mine's perfect.. but just sayin'! ). And I had my pieces screwed down to a couple blocks of hard OAK. Just be sure you have good tools and know what you're doing before you start hogging things out, ok? My biggest expense was the new 1/4" 4-flute center-cutting end mill (to use in my baby Delta drill press- not the best, but okay), but that end-mill really worked well. It looks like Ron has more access than me, to different size end mills and what-not. I only wanted to buy one size, so the 1/4" worked pretty good. This one, if you're interested: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4898 ....
P.S. : If 'anybody' really, really wanted.... I could probably mail a set of the prints I used for laying out the holes... just sayin' .. I cut them out on the outline, contact-cemented them to the liner and frame, checked for enough edge clearance by holding them up to the light, center-punched, and by the time they got all saturated with cutting oil, they scraped back off real easy....
And I really don't use or need a flipper, as I'm old (I mean old-school), and fine with traditional stud-deployment on smoothly-built liner/frame lock type knives. A dremel tool, cut-off disc, and water to cool, made this the easiest part of this project, in about 15 minutes. Don't need the flipper at all, with the greasy new washers.. Optional, of course .
And lastly, I really like the carbon fiber scale, although slicker than the textured G10, but also check out Bella Blades, as he does some gorgeous work in all kinds of scale materials.. 'plug'!
You'll love the smoothness with the bigger washers if you go that way- it's the feel you want in this knife. And if you take on the 'ZT566 on a diet' project... take your time, and use really good bits and lots of cutting oil, and be careful, and have fun! BTT

 

[Spyder328]

A way to get a bigger washer for the SpeedSafe side is to fill out the part request forum from ZT and ask for a pivot assembly for the 0566 (obviously). They give you new washers and you can use the other bigger washer instead of the small washer. Thats what I did and it is super smooth :thumbup:

 

[blairtech]

A way to get a bigger washer for the SpeedSafe side is to fill out the part request forum from ZT and ask for a pivot assembly for the 0566 (obviously). They give you new washers and you can use the other bigger washer instead of the small washer. Thats what I did and it is super smooth :thumbup:

Now, that is some good info, and pretty slick to cheat like that too! I wonder if ZT will figure it out if they start getting a 'bunch" of requests for that? . I like your thinkin' buddy! Anything to help the process and make our 566's smooth like they should have come.. The ones I bought were dirt cheap anyway, so either way works! Hey, did you fill in the cavity behind with JB-weld, or just slap it back together to see the difference? Just a thought, but if you don't fill in the liner cavity back flush again, then you've only made the washer support on that side very slightly larger, as the steel area on the liner supporting that washer, is only slightly larger than that miniature bronze washer was.. See what I mean? The blade will still develop more movement later on, if that washer is not supported to it's outside diameter. You'll see the worn imprint of the smaller support area on the smaller part of that washer if you ever take it out again. Not to rain on your parade! You done good getting the free larger washer from ZT!... but might as well fill in with JB and make it last while longer while we're at it..... But excuse my bs for a minute, and you notice a pretty worthwhile difference now too? What kinda lube you use on that? Good report!

 

[rpttrsn]

Finally removed the assisted bar from my knife. Filled in the area below for more support for the washers like Blair suggested. These washers are a little larger then the large ones you get from ZT. Keeping the flipper and found that with grease on the washers it does not flip as well as a good oil. The grease I used was Super Lube with Teflon. With these larger washers the blade centers perfectly when closed. If you make you knife tip down like I do you might have to shorten the pocket clip screws a very small amount as one will make contact with the washer if it extends below the frame. With tip down the clip sits over part of the frame and not just over the lock bar. Now any pressure on the clip when opening does not hinder the blade deployment for me.
I took the knife apart again to remove the grease. Left a slight film on the side of the washer that contacts the frame. Lubed the rest with Tri-Flow oil with PTFE and the Knife flips without any wrist every time. If you don't use the flipper the grease was very smooth with the thumb studs. Thumb stud with assisted was just about impossible for me. Now flipper or studs it doesn't matter.
With the weight reduced to 4.90 oz. , larger washers, torsion bar removed, cavity filled with epoxy for washer support and blade edge re-profiled, this makes one sweet EDC.

 

[Spyder328]

Now, that is some good info, and pretty slick to cheat like that too! I wonder if ZT will figure it out if they start getting a 'bunch" of requests for that? . I like your thinkin' buddy! Anything to help the process and make our 566's smooth like they should have come.. The ones I bought were dirt cheap anyway, so either way works! Hey, did you fill in the cavity behind with JB-weld, or just slap it back together to see the difference? Just a thought, but if you don't fill in the liner cavity back flush again, then you've only made the washer support on that side very slightly larger, as the steel area on the liner supporting that washer, is only slightly larger than that miniature bronze washer was.. See what I mean? The blade will still develop more movement later on, if that washer is not supported to it's outside diameter. You'll see the worn imprint of the smaller support area on the smaller part of that washer if you ever take it out again. Not to rain on your parade! You done good getting the free larger washer from ZT!... but might as well fill in with JB and make it last while longer while we're at it..... But excuse my bs for a minute, and you notice a pretty worthwhile difference now too? What kinda lube you use on that? Good report!

As soon as I took it apart I realized that the bigger washer wouldn't do much without filling it in, but I never filled the slot because I just haven't gotten around to it I may do it or may not, I'm not sure. I actually broke it in with the smaller washer and it was super smooth. When I replaced the washer I only greased the washer I put in and I used "Magnalube-G" teflon grease. It is slightly smoother then it was after I broke it in with the factory washer. I keep reading people saying it is hard to flip and that it isn't smooth, but mine wasn't the best out of the box (once deassisted I had to use my wrist to flick it open, wasn't very smooth) but after flipping it open and closed non-stop for a few days straight it is the smoothest knife I've ever had. Now I can flick it open with absolutely no wrist movement. I think most of them just need to be broken in to smooth out.

 

[blairtech]

Finally removed the assisted bar from my knife. Filled in the area below for more support for the washers like Blair suggested. These washers are a little larger then the large ones you get from ZT. Keeping the flipper and found that with grease on the washers it does not flip as well as a good oil. The grease I used was Super Lube with Teflon. With these larger washers the blade centers perfectly when closed. If you make you knife tip down like I do you might have to shorten the pocket clip screws a very small amount as one will make contact with the washer if it extends below the frame. With tip down the clip sits over part of the frame and not just over the lock bar. Now any pressure on the clip when opening does not hinder the blade deployment for me.
I took the knife apart again to remove the grease. Left a slight film on the side of the washer that contacts the frame. Lubed the rest with Tri-Flow oil with PTFE and the Knife flips without any wrist every time. If you don't use the flipper the grease was very smooth with the thumb studs. Thumb stud with assisted was just about impossible for me. Now flipper or studs it doesn't matter.
With the weight reduced to 4.90 oz. , larger washers, torsion bar removed, cavity filled with epoxy for washer support and blade edge re-profiled, this makes one sweet EDC.

Nice teamwork Ron. We've definitely got the 566 all figured out and perfected now. I know there are many that don't like the idea of having to re-work their new knife to make it smooth and easily deployed, but the effort is really oh so worth it after you feel the difference. Too bad they didn't come this way. And yes, a light oil will be slicker and easier to break free, but I still favor my white lithium grease, just because it seems to last longer, and the oil doesn't travel all over and under the scales and what not. Your preference will vary Sounds like yours and mine are about perfect now, but as a final step, and if the detent was STILL ridiculous to overcome, you could always VERY SLIGHTLY break/45-degree chamfer the edge of the small detent hole on the blade. Just .005" or so to break the edge though, and DO NOT go too far and have a sloppy blade retention! The ball on my Fantoni was very pronounced, and I HAD to break the edge of that hole, to relieve the thumb pain when opening . The 566 ball didn't stick out quite as far, and I didn't have to touch the detent hole, and all is perfect. Nice job buddy.... Maybe WE should make up a batch of 20 or so with ALL THE MODS and re-sell these bad boys..... lol.. kidding... a lot of work hogging these out....

 

[blairtech]

As soon as I took it apart I realized that the bigger washer wouldn't do much without filling it in, but I never filled the slot because I just haven't gotten around to it I may do it or may not, I'm not sure. I actually broke it in with the smaller washer and it was super smooth. When I replaced the washer I only greased the washer I put in and I used "Magnalube-G" teflon grease. It is slightly smoother then it was after I broke it in with the factory washer. I keep reading people saying it is hard to flip and that it isn't smooth, but mine wasn't the best out of the box (once deassisted I had to use my wrist to flick it open, wasn't very smooth) but after flipping it open and closed non-stop for a few days straight it is the smoothest knife I've ever had. Now I can flick it open with absolutely no wrist movement. I think most of them just need to be broken in to smooth out.

Yes, the teeny tiny washer on the scale side WILL wear and deform quickly, allowing your knife to feel 'broken in'. There are twisting forces from the spring, and a little pressure from the detent ball as it slides along, and if the pivot is tightened as it should be, then yes, it will start feeling broken-in as that tiny washer starts wearing and conforming to the forces at hand, and giving you a little room. Fine for a show knife that is primarily for flipping and sees little use. Not so good for a knife that will be put to moderate use regularly. It really needs properly sized phosphor bronze guide washers and lubrication for strength and longevity. You shouldn't need 'break-in', if it's built right. And without properly sized washers, it will go from 'break-in' to 'sloppy' much quicker. just sayin'.... NOT meaning to flame
That Magnalube is pretty good stuff too. Have some myself, from back when I worked at FATS (Firearms Training Systems Inc.). Good lube for moving/sliding parts....

 

[rpttrsn]

Nice teamwork Ron. We've definitely got the 566 all figured out and perfected now. I know there are many that don't like the idea of having to re-work their new knife to make it smooth and easily deployed, but the effort is really oh so worth it after you feel the difference. Too bad they didn't come this way. And yes, a light oil will be slicker and easier to break free, but I still favor my white lithium grease, just because it seems to last longer, and the oil doesn't travel all over and under the scales and what not. Your preference will vary Sounds like yours and mine are about perfect now, but as a final step, and if the detent was STILL ridiculous to overcome, you could always VERY SLIGHTLY break/45-degree chamfer the edge of the small detent hole on the blade. Just .005" or so to break the edge though, and DO NOT go too far and have a sloppy blade retention! The ball on my Fantoni was very pronounced, and I HAD to break the edge of that hole, to relieve the thumb pain when opening . The 566 ball didn't stick out quite as far, and I didn't have to touch the detent hole, and all is perfect. Nice job buddy.... Maybe WE should make up a batch of 20 or so with ALL THE MODS and re-sell these bad boys..... lol.. kidding... a lot of work hogging these out....

Working with others on upgrading a knife is beneficial to all. I also put a slight chamfer on the blade where the detent ball make contact when closing. Have been doing this for years to many knives. You just want to do this in the area (approx. 1/32"} where the ball lifts onto the blade. This location is very apparent from the mark on the blade when the knife is apart. The closing of the knife is now one smooth movement of the blade. Hope others who have this knife make these changes as they will see a noticeable improvement on how the knife operates. IMO
I think this thread should have been moved to maint. area when started, so more members would have seen the changes.

 

[blairtech]

Yeah, you're right... My first post here, and I thought I was starting it in general knife discussion.... let's see... if there's a way I can move it, since I started it... hmmm...
And I'm pretty sure you know most of the improvement tips and tricks better than I do, as I've liked carrying a small EDC for years, but never started tearing into them
and modifying until recently. I guess I've gotten more particular about what I want, which is hard to find, and then I may have to correct a few things to make it perfect
and make it mine. So it goes..

 

[frickbot]

Thank you for this thread. i'm going to order the new washers ASAP.

 

[Blackfish775]

I'm completely tool-inept, but I saw this and thought "Damn, that's some cool shit."

Very nice, Blairtech.

 

[bonzodog]

Very nice mod,

 

[dogboye]

Nice mod. As far as sticking/binding/etc. on opening (which is what I assume you refer to when you mention it), I put a new clip on mine, from the ZT0770, that is shorter, and I've not had that problem since. No blade play either, open or closed. If I didn't like the spring assist so much, though, I'd go through the trouble of doing your washer mod. Well done.

 

[blairtech]

I'm completely tool-inept, but I saw this and thought "Damn, that's some cool shit."

Very nice, Blairtech.

Thanks Alex I really like the overall size, shape, and ergos of this knife, but obviously wanted it a bit lighter, and a bunch stronger and smoother in the pivot. I've been a mechanical designer, and a technician too, but never a machinist, so this was done on a cheap baby Delta drill press in the garage. WISH I had a milling machine... that would be fun! Tools are cool man... Now let's see if I can attach the second one I did on Saturday... better hole pattern, but maybe not quite as deep as the first (being careful), so didn't lose all that much more. I really do like the weight savings though, and now I won't be needing the titanium version 0566, IF they ever come out with one!!!... 0566T/M380??? The new 0562 looks like some 'cool shit' too, but still a little overkill for EDC for me.. It's all good

 

[gooeytek]

I've done a lot of larger-diameter washer upgrades to my de-assisted knives as well. I tend to use Nylatron ones.

 

[Spyder328]

Thanks Alex I really like the overall size, shape, and ergos of this knife, but obviously wanted it a bit lighter, and a bunch stronger and smoother in the pivot. I've been a mechanical designer, and a technician too, but never a machinist, so this was done on a cheap baby Delta drill press in the garage. WISH I had a milling machine... that would be fun! Tools are cool man... Now let's see if I can attach the second one I did on Saturday... better hole pattern, but maybe not quite as deep as the first (being careful), so didn't lose all that much more. I really do like the weight savings though, and now I won't be needing the titanium version 0566, IF they ever come out with one!!!... 0566T/M380??? The new 0562 looks like some 'cool shit' too, but still a little overkill for EDC for me.. It's all goodView attachment 437182

Thats like a work of art....

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Hi Blairtech,

Love what you have done. Would you consider making another or even a few more, perhaps if I supplied the ZT566's:>??? What you have described would make the knife legal over here in Aussie-land, as both assisted and flippers are banned (as long as you leave the detent alone otherwise it could be wrist flicked open, and also banned). I have asked some suppliers before but they said too much work for a seller, maybe it's do-able for a weekend tinkerer let me know if interested...

Cheers,

WTF

 

[blairtech]

Hi Blairtech,

Love what you have done. Would you consider making another or even a few more, perhaps if I supplied the ZT566's:>??? What you have described would make the knife legal over here in Aussie-land, as both assisted and flippers are banned (as long as you leave the detent alone otherwise it could be wrist flicked open, and also banned). I have asked some suppliers before but they said too much work for a seller, maybe it's do-able for a weekend tinkerer let me know if interested...

Cheers,

WTF

Thanks WTF... and if you also supply a mini-milling machine with coolant system, I'd definitely get into the business Seriously though, I've just got too much 'other' work going on right at the moment, and honestly, these are a lot of work to do on a cheesy little drill press! It's real slow-going to keep the bits cool and try not to heat or dull them working with the stainless. I did a little reading myself, and what was important was: 1) nice sharp bits- I used cobalt, maybe carbide even better.., 2) LOW spindle speed, 3) but more downward pressure, and 4) flowing coolant if you have the set-up... . The idea is to make sure the sharp bit keeps seeing and taking fresh material, because when the bits dull and then you exert more pressure, the stainless work-hardens almost instantly. I can touch up the cobalt drill bits (with the drill doctor), but I have to grab a new 4-flute center-cutting end mill when I chase the holes out (counter-bore), for a flat bottom and better material removal.
Now... what you can do easily yourself... is lose the assist spring and go with another larger washer on the 'de-assisted side (highly recommended).
AND.... taking off the flipper is EASY WORK- mark the blade with a line so it'll be flush with the top of the liners/scales. Grab a little bowl of water, and a Dremel tool with one of the small cut-off discs. Cut and cool, cut and cool, cut and cool. Wrap some fine sandpaper around a tiny block, and make the new corners friendly. 15 minutes and done!
So... YOU can de-assist and de-flipper quite easily And sorry... if I actually had some kind of mini-mill or similar set-up at home, I might do a batch of these, but just not cost effective at all for me to do any more the way I had to do mine! Great knife for $115 from BladeHQ, and even better with the mods. And I'm pretty sure the price came down with everybody pre-ordering the new ones..
Now, if any body wanted a 1:1 print of the hole patterns I used, to do their own milling... no problem.
So... I guess you need a small torx driver and a Dremel tool and another washer and maybe some JB Weld
Oh, if you don't have mini-torx, this is REAL handy- http://www.bladehq.com/item--Boker-Knives-Toolkit-Torx--8073
And the .505" OD washer from usaknifemaker; OR another pivot kit assembly (comes with another .45" OD washer) from KAI/ZT...
g'day buddy...

 

[rpttrsn]

BlairTech,
I have worked with stainless in all grades most of my life. I would stay away from carbide as it can chip easy and I don't believe you can sharpen it on a drill doctor. 95 present of the time I used HS steel bits. Buy good bits. Not stuff made in China. Just make sure you don't run to fast an use cutting fluid. The fluid does not have to be running on the work. Cobalt is a step up from HS steel. All the bottoming out of the holes were done with a 2 flute end mill when I did mine. Keep up the nice work.
Ron

 

[blairtech]

Thanks Ron. Always good tips from you. I've always been sold on the cobalt bits as they last longer than the HSS (when used correctly). Besides, I just like to have one complete set sharp and ready for use, so they're going to be the cobalt. I haven't tried sharpening carbide on the drill doctor, but it uses a diamond dust wheel, so should work. I know you can sharpen carbide-tipped masonry style bits, but not sure how good a job it does. I believe you that the carbides will chip easily, so not much desire there.. And no, don't get your bits from Harbor Freight! See.... I told you other people would want our modded 566's.... but probably wouldn't want to pay in full for what it really costs us to do. If I had a milling machine and could also cut slots and cavities for the material removal.... would be sweet......