ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

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bodog

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Please keep your flaming away. Any constructive conversation appreciated.

Timeline.

ZT started with rugged, beefy, no nonsense blades meant to be carried by first responders, law enforcement, military, etc. I knew several guys who carried 0200s and 0350s before ZT was really known for being anything but an offshoot of Kershaw. Those knives made me curious though they weren't for me, personally.

ZT came out with the 0550, 0560, 0801, and 0566. IMO these were the highlights of what ZT has done as far as working man knives for knowledgeable people. They were relatively affordable and they were doing things no one else was doing on a production scale at the time. The steel was on point, the designs were on point, and more importantly, they were made to be used hard. They came out with the 0560CBCF for collectors and I think it was well done. Kept the spirit of working knives while doing something new and exciting. I've had two 0560CBCFs and have a 0561. Also a 0566. All great in their own respects. Actually, really impressive in all respects. I had some real issues with them being called "zero tolerance" with any kind of faults leaving their factory but their warranty guys were pretty good about fixing their screw ups. I carried the 0561 today and it's still a really damned good knife. I enjoy it.

Then came the 0600, 0777, the 0454, 0450, etc. Great, solid knives. But starting towards "pocket candy" status. Beautiful but it took jumping over some some internal hurdles to EDC these as a first responder/ law enforcement, and especially military. Owned a 0600 and was blown away with the quality. Didn't like the steel all THAT much but it was good. It was now I was questioning whether they were actually for any kind of first responder or LEO or especially military. This is where they deviated from what they were founded upon. They were still beefy and COULD be considered good for first responders and LEOs, but really, no one cut from that cloth would carry them.

Then came the 0180 and their hatchet. I was skeptical but bought an 0180 and beat the shit out of it and recorded my first tests of it here on BF. It was surprisingly great at taking a real ass whipping. I currently carry it on my duty rig. When things are going to get at least a little rough and I know it going in, I carry my 0180. I believe in it that much. I needed to rehandle it and the sheath sucks, but it's molle compatible and I did need a sheath that's molle compatible so whatever. It works.

And then came some crazy ideas and some stupid ideas and some production knives that I couldn't figure out how they are anything like the earlier iterations that men better than me trusted their knife needs to. Now we're up to carbon fiber inserts in the blade and ugly angry bird knives that don't do anything but show off capabilities that no real world guy gives a crap about. They're definitely not anything that a first responder could ever conceivably carry on duty. Definitely not anyone in the military would think about taking into the field. IMO they're an embarrassment to what they founded their business model on. BUT they're great for people who like to fondle knives, make youtube videos of unboxing and initial impressions, and rave about the having something no one else has.

But where are the knives meant for first responders, LEOs, and military guys? The only stuff in their catalog that still serves that purpose were the same knives and designs that they started with. And nothing really changed with these. Even the MUDD, which, IMO, was damned near the best thing they could've give us, was marked off the list as soon as they saw collectors didn't want it.

The point of this is:

Their internal designers don't have a clue anymore about what to produce for the front liners. They have money to produce some really great things but they're not putting that into knives actually meant for anyone they originally catered to.

Why don't they reintroduce the MUDD with some better ergos? Why don't they scale down the 0600 for a more friendly carry? Why don't they create designs that are meant for something more than ogling? Why don't they tinker with the 0200 and 0350 to make them more desirable? Why did they move away from working knives for front liners? They obviously did well enough in that market to found a company on. People liked them. And now what? Production knives meant to rival custom art knives? Really, who in the scheme of things cares about that? No one, in all honesty. They'll get some attention, for sure, but the current knives are a far cry from rugged knives meant to use on the front lines they built a brand on.

And before someone claims these are limited edition knives, yada yada, please, someone talk about what ZT line IS NOT a limited edition collectable that hasn't been on the line for more than several years.

The point of the thread is exactly that. Is ZT anything more than pocket jewelry at this point? When I say that I mean in any kind of real way. Are they still serving the front line guys? Or are they moving to simple display pieces meant to show that China doesn't rule the roost? What are they doing now except showing that something that can be done IS being done without regard to any real life consideration? What kind of average grunt in Afghanistan would EVER think about buying a 0999 or a piece that looks like an angry bird turd missile?

What is ZT doing? Are they looking for simple profits from the knife market or are they serving people in a way those people haven't been served before? I know what they were founded on. Now it seems like once they became recognized they left the front liners to Gerber or whoever, yet again, while serving some guys who rarely make it away from their desk except to fondle their knives like some troll from lord of the rings movie talking about their "precious."

Make ZT great again.
 
Maybe they could expand their customer base by offering more beyond framelock Ti flippers? Their competitors have their "bread and butter" (BM Axis EDC's, CS Triad tactical folders etc) yet they squeeze in an enormous catalog of other offerings....and the other brand, Kershaw's really aimed at the Walmart crowd now more than ever so it wasn't like how Bladeforums gushed over them ten years ago. Shun's are nice but a totally different universe of knives.

The USA knife salesman who posts on ZT threads is very enthusiastic about them, kudos to that man.... and I'm sure their core fanbase is equally happy with them.
 
I have enjoyed ZT for their focus on providing us strong products.
The 0350, 0550 and 0801 have been my favourite designs.
For some times now I see their lineup changing, and knives being phaseout quickly...
Te last point is for me a clue about some weakness in their strategy
 
I would say look at knives like the 0804, 0808, 0562, 0909, 0456.
Yes, most are flippers, but, that is where the market is going. They have all come out in the last 2 years. So they are quite recent, and I would consider them pretty hard users. From what I read it just seems the OP is a big Ken Onion and Rick Hinderer fan. ZT is one of the best at working with custom makers on well made collabs.

I am by no means a "Zealot". As a matter of fact, they usually drive me nuts in threads like these. However, I can't look at their current production lineup and think they were not (mostly) meant to take a major beating.
Are they branching out and trying to bring in other types of buyers with all the special LE's? Sure.
There is money to be made, and if someone is willing to buy it, (regardless how fugly it is) why not make it if you have the capabilities?
 
ZT is producing knives that market wants in their production line. Some knives are discontinued because they just don't sell any more.

Their limited editions are geared towards design highlights while most of them being quite practical.

In their current line 0909 is a better 0200.

They now accommodate a lot more market segments with various sizes and lighter knives. Not everyone needs a 3.75"-4.1" heavy folder. I find even the smallest and lightest ones pretty tough.

ZT caters to a larger demographic with excellent quality, customer service and warranty.

I would actually like to see a just under 3" blade lightweight flipper for such localities where one has such restrictions. Right now they just have the beefy 0900.

I'd like to see them offer some other locks other than liner/frame locks as well as just thumb stud opening. As for the flippers I like them all to be KVT bearings and not SpeedSafe Assisted Opening.

I submit that ZT is greater than what it was when it started 10 years ago.
 
I like the 700 and 750 a lot. ZTs new offerings are nice but they're not unique like their first knives were, I suppose that's why I drifted away from them.

But are they now just eye candy? Hell no. They're incredible cutting tools that look good.
 
I think their Les George, Emerson and most of their RJ martin designed knives fill thie role ofngenuine hard use knives. I agree that some of the knives they are currently putting out are not exactly to my taste. The way I see it since they are able to they produce knives to appeal to as many segments of the market as they can, simmilar to what KAI as a whole does.

I think the 0452 is one of the best knives they put out. It is light and rugged and they should make more blades like it.
 
They hit their peak with me years ago, as they haven't made a knife that I cared about enough to buy in a long, long time. Last one I owned was an 0562 that I got in trade, found it nearly unusable and sold it almost immediately. I still check to see if they'll actually make something I'm willing to spend money on, but I ain't holding my breath at this point.
 
I don't get the subject of this thread. Zero Tolerance has brought us Ferrari's at Ford prices. I'm looking forward to see what Thomas Welk will bring us next. :)
 
Looking at ZT's site, they have 45 models listed and only 3 limited editions that I wouldn't think many would buy for service use. The rest are pretty much no frills, knives that would be as at home doing hard use, as anything else made by other manufacturers in the same price range. The limited editions that are a bit too fancy, as well as pricey to be considered by most that intend to use them, still no doubt aren't going to fall apart if they were used. I've owned a fair number of ZT's from the start and the ones I've bought recently like the 0562, 0909, 0804 are indeed every bit comparable to the earlier models, as far as using knives.
 
I don't get the subject of this thread. Zero Tolerance has brought us Ferrari's at Ford prices. I'm looking forward to see what Thomas Welk will bring us next. :)

Exactly, bodog has a beef with zt. Hence the last few threads have targeted them.

Agreed as well on the Ferrari at ford's prices.
 
Looking at their site, there just isn't many knives there at all that aren't designed to be used hard. Only a few LE's stand out as art knives. So, yes the op here is exaggerating.
 
They hit their peak with me years ago, as they haven't made a knife that I cared about enough to buy in a long, long time. Last one I owned was an 0562 that I got in trade, found it nearly unusable and sold it almost immediately. I still check to see if they'll actually make something I'm willing to spend money on, but I ain't holding my breath at this point.

I'm curious, since I find my 0562cf one of the best ZT'S I've owned, just what made it nearly unusable?
 
I own several ZT's and I love them. Like someone said above, Ferrari at Ford prices..
I like that I can buy a ZT at a great price used or on clearance and have a fantastic knife at a great price that I am not afraid to carry and use.
I think they cover all the bases even though I think they are getting a little flipper happy, that seems to be a huge trend right now.
I have an 0801 that is a great knife but I don't feel the need to own another flipper, I'm just not that crazy about them.
I prefer my 0620 to the 0801 any day. I also have an 0350 and an 0770 that I like as well.
I think they are just getting started as a company and KAIs financial backing allows them to experiment and draw in top notch designers.
They seem to put the ZT twist on whatever they make with a designer they are working with, the use the designers design and make it the ZT way..
I'll keep buying ZT knives as I am able too, I like them and Benchmade an awful lot..
 
I would like to see ZT make knives that can be opened without a flipper. Then I might buy one
 
I think ZT has expanded their portfolio to include a wider range of customers. Something for everyone, which makes for a stronger company. I like the business model they have created because it tells me they will be around for a long time and will continue to meet the demands of the ever changing market.
 
Zt knives definitely evolved from their original motto. They state now as they have for a long time they produce overbulit knives which they do. Yes they are down the road of fancy looks but still built strong.
 
This again? ZT has morphed from overly large and heavy knives designed by Ken onion, Mick Strider, and Rick Hinderer, into a larger catalog with more diversity. The 0804, 0808, 0562, 0909, 0456, and even the 0452 and 0450 are all well made and can take plenty of work and punishment. They are not art knives, they just aren't black and as fully tactical as their freshman offerings. The 0562 is the rather obvious successor to the 0560/0561.

They are plenty more than art knives, and I say this as someone who doesn't own ZT currently, though i've owned all but the 0452 at one time or another.
 
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