The unofficial, non binding, carries no weight, Pay It Forward possibility discussion thread

I had fun and went through quite a few knives that I enjoyed trying and then passing on again. For the most part it went amazingly smoothly. Did get cluttered with drama when the "karma factor" was added to the process but still worked better than not.

Was PIFing even after the thread was closed down. Still have a few knives in my rotation that came from PIF.
Would be happy to start in again but must admit that I will not be the one to get it going.

The keeper of the list was essential. Few people could step up and do the job well. Not an indictment as much as a recognition of the time commitment required when free time, for most of us, is precious.

As for the critics - ESPECIALLY, those who never participated, there is an aspect of gawkers at a wreck scene - seems to me that in such a case, it is appropriate and easy to just be quiet, stay away if you don't want to play, see no value, or have no value to offer.

Ray
 
sabre cat said:
But, it was not truly a swap meet.
Calling it that ignores the original intent of the thread.

What do you have against PIFs?
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Nothing. Some of us just have an issue when people try to call something, something it isn't. It was a swap meet, why are you so dead-set against just calling the thread something like "The BF Swapmeet and Fish Fry for the like 15 or 16 Regulars Who Really Only Participate Here" or whatever and getting on with it? I am unaware of any BF rules such a thread would be breaking.

Also, what is with the multiple replies to my posts with different tones? It's a little odd.
 
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RayseM said:
I had fun and went through quite a few knives that I enjoyed trying and then passing on again. For the most part it went amazingly smoothly. Did get cluttered with drama when the "karma factor" was added to the process but still worked better than not.

Was PIFing even after the thread was closed down. Still have a few knives in my rotation that came from PIF.
Would be happy to start in again but must admit that I will not be the one to get it going.

The keeper of the list was essential. Few people could step up and do the job well. Not an indictment as much as a recognition of the time commitment required when free time, for most of us, is precious.

As for the critics - ESPECIALLY, those who never participated, there is an aspect of gawkers at a wreck scene - seems to me that in such a case, it is appropriate and easy to just be quiet, stay away if you don't want to play, see no value, or have no value to offer.

Ray
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Perhaps if you don't like our comments, just be quiet, stay away yourself? :)
 
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miltmaldo said:
For the record I was on the last PIF and I claimed a PIF the other member never sent it . He never even bothered to PM or give me a reason why...
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I don’t think it was me but, if it was, send me a PM and I’ll take care of it. I had a bunch of stuff going on. I could have overlooked something. Please state what I need to ship in the message.

What really bugs me about any type of PIF thread is when the receiving person never bothers to post if the knife ever made it to their door.
 
A PIF thread would be like texting and driving.
 
RayseM said:
As for the critics - ESPECIALLY, those who never participated, there is an aspect of gawkers at a wreck scene - seems to me that in such a case, it is appropriate and easy to just be quiet, stay away if you don't want to play, see no value, or have no value to offer.
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Perfect analogy. Why not avoid the wreck altogether? Easy enough for both participants and onlookers...

But if you all do decide to get into another wreck, there will be plenty willing to watch!
 
This is sad. Everyone’s a critic. Interestingly enough very few comments are directed towards the positive aspects of PIF. There are some. I wonder what would happen if you guys spent as much energy coming up with solutions as you do being critical.
 
sabre cat said:
This is sad. Everyone’s a critic. Interestingly enough very few comments are directed towards the positive aspects of PIF. There are some. I wonder what would happen if you guys spent as much energy coming up with solutions as you do being critical.
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Thank you. This was the point I failed to make.
 
it's not anything against the actual idea of paying it forward … what many that participated in the PIF thread are missing and getting defensive about is that it was not a PIF not really … and it would never be. A true paying it forward doesn't need a thread or values or any of that BS … if you want one thread for giving something away/needing to get approval for an item to give away/values/karma/trading essential/ etc. … make a thread for it and enjoy … just don't try to mislead anyone into thinking it is all paying it forward. Just be honest about what it is and everyone that wants to join in can without expectations or causing a train wreck … in a PUBLIC forum that you should EXPECT everyone to look at and shouldn't be shocked when they do.

Paying it forward or just giving another something is a great gesture and shouldn't need any overseeing or rules or guidelines … or a dedicated thread to do it. We already have those options to do a GAWs or to just give someone something without all the problems and bad feelings the "PIF" thread brought to our forum … which belongs to everyone here not just a small group in one thread. And that gave a very bad look (exact opposite of what paying it forward should be) … that's why many care. It's still controversial doesn't that tell you a lot?
 
sabre cat said:
This is sad. Everyone’s a critic. Interestingly enough very few comments are directed towards the positive aspects of PIF. There are some. I wonder what would happen if you guys spent as much energy coming up with solutions as you do being critical.
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I'll give some positive feedback, but I'll also point out that most of the critics have suggested pretty solid solutions, I think the best of which is to simply do the kind of giveaways that have been common on this forum since I joined it.

As soon as this most recent PIF thread started I spouted off in a different forum about how it was doomed and a terrible idea and, frankly, I think y'all proved me partially wrong. It did end badly, but it went on for far longer than I ever would and I honestly admire the folks that worked hard to preserve the camaraderie and spirit of the thread.

That said, the end was inevitable and there were absolutely those that used it as a charity and those that did use it as a swap meet. I think part of the argument about what it was even from folks that participated heavily is that people will always go into something like that with different expectations unless the nature of the thread is very clearly defined. That's why I favor pure giveaways. There is no confusion in them, the rules are clearly stated and no strings are attached.
 
Every PIF thread I have ever seen has burned itself out one way or another in about six to nine months. This last one went on for way longer than I ever expected and evolved into what you guys insist in calling a swap meet.

Personally, I think that happened because of the karma issue. If I was to start another PIF thread or at least be in one, I don’t think I would allow karma. Discussions about karma within the thread itself would doom it to failure.

If someone wants to do a GAW, I think that’s great. Go for it. However, that is normally the end of it. Someone gives away an item and it’s done. It goes no further.

One of the unique things about a PIF thread is its ability to bring people with different backgrounds and resources together and keep them together for greater timeframe than a plain GAW would ever be able to do.

Unless...you added rules and guidelines that you naysayers
are so opposed to. Rules and guidelines that would get twisted and abused just like they did for us.

About 60% of my EDC folders that I really do use come from PIF threads. Try to make that happen with a simple GAW.

More importantly, I was able to pass gear on to those that need it more than I. People that I probably never would’ve met if I had just done a straight giveaway. Also, I think I have less gear now than two PIFs back. :)

My CRKT stiff kiss went to someone that can enjoy it much more than I ever did. Someone that had owned one in the past and missed it greatly. What are the chances of me finding someone like that with just a simple GAW? I am willing to bet money that the answer is slim to none.

Sorry guys, a simple GAW just doesn’t cut it when compared to a PIF thread that is running smoothly and not abused with banked karma.

So, instead of moaning and complaining about how horrible PIF threads are, why don’t you naysayers figure out a way for a GAW thread to run for about one and a half years straight with about 50 items (or more) all up for grabs at the same time. We did it in our PIF thread.

Make sure that it is self policing with zero rules to go by(according to you, they are not needed). Of course, you will be able to guarantee that there won’t be any abuse from forum members, right? We don’t want a replay of our PIF thread do we?

To much? That’s the agenda that you’re trying to push on those of us that were in the last PIF.
Maybe a swap-meet using the above parameters, then.

You know, people have said that it is to early for another PIF thread and I have to agree. Not because it won’t work. We had this last one run for well over a year. But, because some people will never let things rest.
 
I enjoyed taking part in the thread. Whatever ya wanna call it. I had interactions with some really great people,made a couple new friends along the way. I hated to see it end. For the most part everyone was great that took part. No matter what it is in life someone always takes advantage of it. I do hope all the arguing will end. It was great,would love be to take part in another,but if there isn't one if everyone would simply agree to disagree would be the best thing. Wonderful bunch of people on here, pray this doesn't divide people to the point where ill ieelings never go away
 
sabre cat sabre cat & Earl1 Earl1 - I agree with your perspective in these two excellent posts. Sounds like if we called it other than a PIF we could diminish some of the negativity. I guess if you are literally expecting a Pay (or Pass) It Forward the thread, structured as before, does not meet expectations. A Swap Thread seems more accurate and so perhaps, less contentious.
 
sabre cat said:
Every PIF thread I have ever seen has burned itself out one way or another in about six to nine months. This last one went on for way longer than I ever expected and evolved into what you guys insist in calling a swap meet.

Personally, I think that happened because of the karma issue. If I was to start another PIF thread or at least be in one, I don’t think I would allow karma. Discussions about karma within the thread itself would doom it to failure.

If someone wants to do a GAW, I think that’s great. Go for it. However, that is normally the end of it. Someone gives away an item and it’s done. It goes no further.

One of the unique things about a PIF thread is its ability to bring people with different backgrounds and resources together and keep them together for greater timeframe than a plain GAW would ever be able to do.

Unless...you added rules and guidelines that you naysayers
are so opposed to. Rules and guidelines that would get twisted and abused just like they did for us.

About 60% of my EDC folders that I really do use come from PIF threads. Try to make that happen with a simple GAW.

More importantly, I was able to pass gear on to those that need it more than I. People that I probably never would’ve met if I had just done a straight giveaway. Also, I think I have less gear now than two PIFs back. :)

My CRKT stiff kiss went to someone that can enjoy it much more than I ever did. Someone that had owned one in the past and missed it greatly. What are the chances of me finding someone like that with just a simple GAW? I am willing to bet money that the answer is slim to none.

Sorry guys, a simple GAW just doesn’t cut it when compared to a PIF thread that is running smoothly and not abused with banked karma.

So, instead of moaning and complaining about how horrible PIF threads are, why don’t you naysayers figure out a way for a GAW thread to run for about one and a half years straight with about 50 items (or more) all up for grabs at the same time. We did it in our PIF thread.

Make sure that it is self policing with zero rules to go by(according to you, they are not needed). Of course, you will be able to guarantee that there won’t be any abuse from forum members, right? We don’t want a replay of our PIF thread do we?

To much? That’s the agenda that you’re trying to push on those of us that were in the last PIF.
Maybe a swap-meet using the above parameters, then.

You know, people have said that it is to early for another PIF thread and I have to agree. Not because it won’t work. We had this last one run for well over a year. But, because some people will never let things rest.
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I don't understand your claim that anyone here is against having rules in any thread where knives are given away. The point being made isn't that all rules are bad, it's that many of the rules y'all were using were bad and, frankly, I don't even see how that's a point of contention. Many of the rules in the last PIF were created on the fly and then there was the entire karma thing that was a bad idea from the jump.

I don't see anyone arguing rules are somehow bad for a thread like that, but rules A. have to be solid, clear and agreed upon up front and B. if you give someone something with the expectation they provide something in exchange you are not giving it away, you're executing a trade regardless of what they're providing or who they provide it to.

The thread you built in many ways ended up being a pool of knives that your group could draw on to use, experiment with, see what you liked and then pass on to each other when the novelty wore off or you saw something that interested you more. That's actually very cool and a neat approach! But it's not a Pay it Forward thing, like, at all. I don't even think 'swap meet' is quite the right term, but maybe a kind of knife commune. But, and here's my major criticism, y'all were not setting clear and precise expectations among the folks that joined in and that absolutely contributed to the downfall of the thread.

I would strongly suggest that if you feel the need for another such thread that you need to get the core group from the original thread together and have a serious discussion about what y'all want it to actually be. A PIF? A swap meet? A pool of knives for y'all to draw on, try, see what you like and then put back into circulation in the group? I would strongly advise picking one.
 
sabre cat said:
Every PIF thread I have ever seen has burned itself out one way or another in about six to nine months. This last one went on for way longer than I ever expected and evolved into what you guys insist in calling a swap meet.

Personally, I think that happened because of the karma issue. If I was to start another PIF thread or at least be in one, I don’t think I would allow karma. Discussions about karma within the thread itself would doom it to failure.

If someone wants to do a GAW, I think that’s great. Go for it. However, that is normally the end of it. Someone gives away an item and it’s done. It goes no further.

One of the unique things about a PIF thread is its ability to bring people with different backgrounds and resources together and keep them together for greater timeframe than a plain GAW would ever be able to do.

Unless...you added rules and guidelines that you naysayers
are so opposed to. Rules and guidelines that would get twisted and abused just like they did for us.

About 60% of my EDC folders that I really do use come from PIF threads. Try to make that happen with a simple GAW.

More importantly, I was able to pass gear on to those that need it more than I. People that I probably never would’ve met if I had just done a straight giveaway. Also, I think I have less gear now than two PIFs back. :)

My CRKT stiff kiss went to someone that can enjoy it much more than I ever did. Someone that had owned one in the past and missed it greatly. What are the chances of me finding someone like that with just a simple GAW? I am willing to bet money that the answer is slim to none.

Sorry guys, a simple GAW just doesn’t cut it when compared to a PIF thread that is running smoothly and not abused with banked karma.

So, instead of moaning and complaining about how horrible PIF threads are, why don’t you naysayers figure out a way for a GAW thread to run for about one and a half years straight with about 50 items (or more) all up for grabs at the same time. We did it in our PIF thread.

Make sure that it is self policing with zero rules to go by(according to you, they are not needed). Of course, you will be able to guarantee that there won’t be any abuse from forum members, right? We don’t want a replay of our PIF thread do we?

To much? That’s the agenda that you’re trying to push on those of us that were in the last PIF.
Maybe a swap-meet using the above parameters, then.

You know, people have said that it is to early for another PIF thread and I have to agree. Not because it won’t work. We had this last one run for well over a year. But, because some people will never let things rest.
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Jeez.

If it was so great, just start another one. Pay no attention to the naysayers. Why do you care what they think anyway? Get the mods involved if trolls try to disrupt such a thread.

What you are doing now is complaining about people complaining about an idea that failed. Think if you put that energy into fixing the problems or hell, just starting another thread and having as much fun as the last one. Who cares what others think.

At this point you are just spinning your wheels for no reason.
 
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