1095...So what's the verdict?

R

R.C.Reichert

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Jul 26, 2008
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I know some of you here have used Canola oil to quench 1095 blades, so my question is...how did those blades turn out? How well did they perform?

There was a thread a little while back in particular in which I remember Tai Goo saying he had made a blade for one of the other members (1095 quenched in canola), so I'm just wondering how well that blade performed?

Tai...If I may ask...what is your opinion on using Canola with 1095? Is Canola a reasonable alternative to Parks#50 for those like me who have great difficulty obtaining the "real" quenchant? Would be interested in your most masterful opinion and thoughts.:D Sorry...probably asked too many questions. For me personally, 1095 is the most readily available steel in the sizes I'm looking for.

I hate switching back and forth from 01 to 5160 to 1080 because the other steels are either limited in supply or limited selection of sizes. I want to be able to just stick with one steel type. 1095 is inexpensive and there is a much better selection. Would like to stick with that if possible.
 
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RC,

I'm certainly not a master like Tai Goo, but I have successfully used veg oil on 1095. Veg oil is not as fast as Parks, so is not ideal, but it does work. Normalizing helps prior to Ht.quench. But, IMHO, if you can get your hands on1075 steel, you'd be better off. 1075 seems more forgiving. Just my two cents.Good Luck

Dave
 
David Stifle said:
RC,

I'm certainly not a master like Tai Goo, but I have successfully used veg oil on 1095. Veg oil is not as fast as Parks, so is not ideal, but it does work. Normalizing helps prior to Ht.quench. But, IMHO, if you can get your hands on1075 steel, you'd be better off. 1075 seems more forgiving. Just my two cents.Good Luck

Dave
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I would like to be able to use 1075/1080, but for now I can only get it in 1/8" thickness.:( I want to forge some large bowie blades. Thanks for the reply.:)
 
So where are you getting your 1095 from?? Allot of plow disks and blades are 1080, you could also take a chunk of 1080 and weld it to 5160 or something to make a larger blade. I bought 300lbs of 5160 out of a calgary spring manufacture last year, very reasonable prices(would hate to see the price tag on 300lbs of 01). I relay like how 5160 preforms in large blades.... plus it seems more forgiving on grain growth if you overheat it during heat treatment.
 
john0270 said:
So where are you getting your 1095 from?? Allot of plow disks and blades are 1080, you could also take a chunk of 1080 and weld it to 5160 or something to make a larger blade. I bought 300lbs of 5160 out of a calgary spring manufacture last year, very reasonable prices(would hate to see the price tag on 300lbs of 01). I relay like how 5160 preforms in large blades.... plus it seems more forgiving on grain growth if you overheat it during heat treatment.
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Did you get that 5160 from Standen Spring in Calgary? Will they sell it by the bar?
 
I just bought 3/16"x2"72" from admiral steel not long ago. Theres plenty of other sizes there too.
 
I've been getting satisfactory results with it, but don't claim that it is ideal, fool proof or the best choice for everyone.

There are other factors to consider with quench speeds,... mainly geometry and to some degree grain size. I only recommend using it on thin stock with 1095, up to about 1/8 inch. However, some folks say it works O.K. up to about 1/4 inch. Keep in mind though we're talking about a wedge or diamond shaped cross section.

I've made quite a few users with 1095 quenched in canola and never had a complaint about it. Most of my customers really like the way it performs.

I think you are talking about Nathan. I made him a chefs knife a while back from 1095 in canola. It was from 1/8 inch stock with a bit of a distal taper. I had to normalize/stress relieve it a lot of times to get it to set up straight,... way more than normal. So, it probably had a very small grain size. He said the performance was "good",... not over the top great, but not unsatisfactory either. That's just one example.
 
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You could also try Kelly Couples found on elliscustonknifeworks.com he has sizes bigger that 1/8" or I'm sure Aldo Bruno still has some 1084 in 1/4" size. His info can be found in the for sale area of this forum. I personally think you will get just as good results if not better out of 1080-84 using canola oil. When I first started I used 1095 because most knife supply places carried it but after a little experience I found that 1080 was a lot less specific on heat treat and blades were turning out better.

R.C. Reichery: if you’re looking for 5160 I get mine from Ray Kirk (Rakerknives.com) he has great prices and a hell of a guy to deal with.
 
I made a few 1095 blades that I quenched in Canola with good results. They held an edge and took a beating. I haven't used it since I came up with some Park #50.
 
I should add that there is something to be said for fitting the steel to the HT rather than fitting the HT to the steel.

Also, I don't concern myself with any type of "idealism", including metallurgical, because it only exists in the mind,... like "perfection". I don’t use idealism or “pure performance” as a selling point for my knives or as a marketing strategy. There are many other factors to consider with "overall performance" and customer satisfaction,... not just HT.
 
Thanks for the input Tai. The way it sounds, geometrically speaking:D even if I forge a bowie with a 1/4" spine and it is flat gound from there, closer to the edge section the steel should be thin enough to harden sufficiently even with the canola. If I tried to harden a whole bar of 1095 that was 1/4" thick through and through, it might not harden completely with the canola. Seems as though if I make smaller hunter type knives with 1/8" or less, even being 1095 they should harden up just fine with the canola. As for the large bowies...as long as they are fully hard at the edge is the important thing I guess. I hope that sounds logical. I guess I'll just have to test my blades through and through and go from there.

Thanks for all the help...all a ya.
 
R.C. That sounds about right to me.

...If you get everything else right, which I'm confident that you will. :)
 
So what's the hardness of 1095 straight out of canola oil quench?

Would it work for 1/8" stock 1095? I know 1/4" won't work, because even brine left the center diamond section somewhat soft.
 
A friend had some Rockwell tested at 63-64, from 3/16 stock. He tested the spine and edge.
 
Tai Goo said:
A friend had some Rockwell tested at 63-64, from 3/16 stock. He tested the spine and edge.
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That looks very good considering the thick 3/16" stock. Maybe with 1/8" stock it can reach very close to full hardness.
 
cotdt said:
That looks very good considering the thick 3/16" stock. Maybe with 1/8" stock it can reach very close to full hardness.
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True, but you have to get it too the canola before the thin edge or cross section air chills too much, or try to compensate for the wedge shaped geometry thermally... or both.
 
I have my quench sitting directly in front of the forge so I can quench my steel in about the time it takes to say "one one thousand". I've seen some videos where people walk half way across the shop just to quench their knife...by that time it's already changed color.
 
Any of you use the quench oil from McMaster-Carr for 1095? They sell an 11 second quench oil, I bought a 5 gal pail and shipped it was compareable to canola in price, about 75.00. Don't grind your knife too thin before you quench or you WILL warp. I am profiling 1/8 1095 blades and the heat treating and grinding bevels after the heat treat now, which seems backwards, but I have had no issues with warping.
If you look at the spec sheets from admiral, it actually calls for a water quench of 1095. I made some file guides for the shop last week of 1/8 1095. I heated to 1500 and water quenched. It would easily skate a brand new file, so made for a great guide.
 
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